I may be interpreting this wrong but it looks like your small panels are more linear then your large ones...
Hi Wachara,
If those peaks at 100Hz and 185Hz are the resonance peaks (and they look like they are) then I find it odd that your smaller panel has a lower resonance frequency than the wider panel. Could it be that there is a more tension on the bass panel diaphragm than on the treble panel?
It looks like you still have a lot of room reflections. What measurement settings did you use? Can you show the impulse response as well?
The treble panel shows these wide variations between 2kHz and 10kHz, you might have to play with the position of the microphone to get a better measurement.
If those peaks at 100Hz and 185Hz are the resonance peaks (and they look like they are) then I find it odd that your smaller panel has a lower resonance frequency than the wider panel. Could it be that there is a more tension on the bass panel diaphragm than on the treble panel?
It looks like you still have a lot of room reflections. What measurement settings did you use? Can you show the impulse response as well?
The treble panel shows these wide variations between 2kHz and 10kHz, you might have to play with the position of the microphone to get a better measurement.
Hi Arend-Jan,
Could you tell me what the difference in terms of higher or lower resonance will make to the sound? You might be right about the tension of bigger panels being higher than the smaller ones. I had to used my heat gun a to blow the diaphragms on the bigger panels a few times, because the diaphragms tended to stick to one side of the stators. It's possible that they now become more tight than the smaller ones.
From the results, do you think I still need to have a subwoofer? What is the ideal cross over point?
Also, I haven't made the legs for the speakers yet. They are leaning against my chairs. When doing the measurement, could it be that the sound got bounced back from the surface of the chairs?
I'll try to do more testing tonight and will post the results.
Wachara C.
Could you tell me what the difference in terms of higher or lower resonance will make to the sound? You might be right about the tension of bigger panels being higher than the smaller ones. I had to used my heat gun a to blow the diaphragms on the bigger panels a few times, because the diaphragms tended to stick to one side of the stators. It's possible that they now become more tight than the smaller ones.
From the results, do you think I still need to have a subwoofer? What is the ideal cross over point?
Also, I haven't made the legs for the speakers yet. They are leaning against my chairs. When doing the measurement, could it be that the sound got bounced back from the surface of the chairs?
I'll try to do more testing tonight and will post the results.
Wachara C.
Hi Wachara,
yes big objects right behind the panel are a big no-no when doing measurements.
About the bass, if the bass panels have a resonance of 180 Hz then yes, I'd say they need a sub.
For the next measurement please include the phase response (left bottom, the button that says 'M+P'). This might help to identify the resonance frequency.
yes big objects right behind the panel are a big no-no when doing measurements.
About the bass, if the bass panels have a resonance of 180 Hz then yes, I'd say they need a sub.
For the next measurement please include the phase response (left bottom, the button that says 'M+P'). This might help to identify the resonance frequency.
I have a few friends coming over to see my ESL tonight. We have so much food, so much wine, and so much fun testing a DAC + a preamp + a CD transporter and lots of CD. Despite the frequencies response not being perfect, all of us are amazed at the sound from these speakers. With a CD transporter and a DAC, the high goes even higher and the low goes a lot deeper. It's just incredible.
I'm not able to do any more testing tonight. Sorry, Arend-Jan. 😀
Wachara C.
I'm not able to do any more testing tonight. Sorry, Arend-Jan. 😀
Wachara C.
Wachara you are difficult to keep up with, I am just starting to make the electrostatic
headphones and you post this! I will be following this thread with interest.🙂
headphones and you post this! I will be following this thread with interest.🙂
Your speakers dont really "kick in" (sorry about lack of better word)
until about 110hz a good sub has a cross of about 40-80hz but you need to cover a little bigger range. id say cross at maybe 100hz? someone else might come with a better explination and point
until about 110hz a good sub has a cross of about 40-80hz but you need to cover a little bigger range. id say cross at maybe 100hz? someone else might come with a better explination and point
vaughn said:
Hi Matt,
How is the progress of your headphone?
I am probably one of the first Thais in Thailand who has actually built a pair of electrostatic speakers and headphones. Many of my friends are really interested to find out how good they can sound. Well, after the meeting, everybody wants to have his very own. Therefore, we are going to build a few pairs very soon. 😀
I know that the frequencies responses from these speakers look somewhat strange. But when they play music, they do a fantastic job. With the help of a DAC, the highs and the lows just go beyond our expectation.
We really had a good time last night. Wish you were here.
Wachara C.
bacon665 said:
Hi Bacon665,
I will probably get myself an active subwoofer. I think they sound excellent as they are now playing music. However, an active subwoofer might help when watching movies. So, I might just use the woofer when needed.
Wachara C.
Hi,
the response still doesn´t look too much like a decent measurement.
The high Fs of the bass panels is unreal. Estimating the dimensions of the panels 180Hz is impossible with heat treatment. Too high. A Heat treated membrane would show ~100Hz Fs. To get higher tension values only mechanical stretching is the option, because raising tension by using closer distanced spacers won´t be optimal too.
When You measure the first runs should be in close distance to the membrane. Avoid reflecting obstacles behind the membrane. I´d choose the smoothing to 1/3octave and check that the time marks which are set withín the impulse response window are correctly set.
The first measure I do is normally an imedance plot. It gives You information about correct wiring, problematic or maybe even fatal volume and impedance values and shows You if the tranny-panel combination is basically ok or way off.
I´ve got the impression, that Your tranny might not have enough inductance, but that´s a very wild guess at the moment, since I don´t think, that the response curves show the real amplitude response of the panels. So check out the impedance response first.
jauu
Calvin
the response still doesn´t look too much like a decent measurement.
The high Fs of the bass panels is unreal. Estimating the dimensions of the panels 180Hz is impossible with heat treatment. Too high. A Heat treated membrane would show ~100Hz Fs. To get higher tension values only mechanical stretching is the option, because raising tension by using closer distanced spacers won´t be optimal too.
When You measure the first runs should be in close distance to the membrane. Avoid reflecting obstacles behind the membrane. I´d choose the smoothing to 1/3octave and check that the time marks which are set withín the impulse response window are correctly set.
The first measure I do is normally an imedance plot. It gives You information about correct wiring, problematic or maybe even fatal volume and impedance values and shows You if the tranny-panel combination is basically ok or way off.
I´ve got the impression, that Your tranny might not have enough inductance, but that´s a very wild guess at the moment, since I don´t think, that the response curves show the real amplitude response of the panels. So check out the impedance response first.
jauu
Calvin
Hi Calvin,
You have to really help me with the resonance measurement, because I really don't know anything about it. I'm going to do more testing this afternoon. I'll post more results here.
About checking for impedance response, could you tell me how to check it?
Wachara C.
You have to really help me with the resonance measurement, because I really don't know anything about it. I'm going to do more testing this afternoon. I'll post more results here.
About checking for impedance response, could you tell me how to check it?
Wachara C.
Hi Arend-Jan,
I'm not sure whether my microphones are lousy or what. I change to another microphone and the readings seem totally different. This microphone is from my donor headphone I used for making my ES headphone. I know it's lousy, but it's all I have got right now.
Here is for the small panel.
This is for the big panel.
Wachara C.
I'm not sure whether my microphones are lousy or what. I change to another microphone and the readings seem totally different. This microphone is from my donor headphone I used for making my ES headphone. I know it's lousy, but it's all I have got right now.
Here is for the small panel.
This is for the big panel.
Wachara C.
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