Hello everyone !
Here is an updated build or my project :
I want to build a portable "boombox". I must insist on the "portable" as I don't have a car nor a bike. I'm tall and still in "good" shape so I think I can easily move around 15Kg (and If I can't, I'll just use a small trolley, or go to the gym
). Usually parties are outdoor, playing for 6hours, for 50-100 people. It won't be the only speaker, it's to support an already existing setup with several boombox (sometimes only one Aiwa Exos-9, which is not enough, that's the main reason why I want to build it). My budget is between 500€ and 750€. I live in France and the wood I can get would cost me around 50€-100€ for MDF (which I entend to use).
I'm not looking for perfection here. The project is basically a cheaper soundboks gen. 3.
Thanks a lot for the help
Here is the new build :
Mid/bass 10" drivers : Eminence Beta-10A – Thomann France x2
Tweeter compression 1" : Celestion CDX1-1010 – Thomann France
Horn. : Celestion H1-8050 – Thomann France
DSP 2x4: miniDSP Kits: miniDSP 2x4 kit
3way amp : WONDOM AA-AB35281 T-Amp Class D Amplifier Module 3x200W 3 Ohm - Audiophonics
36V battery : https://fra.grandado.com/products/3..._BwE&variant=UHJvZHVjdFZhcmlhbnQ6MjA1MDY4NDg3
Let me know what you think.
Here is an updated build or my project :
I want to build a portable "boombox". I must insist on the "portable" as I don't have a car nor a bike. I'm tall and still in "good" shape so I think I can easily move around 15Kg (and If I can't, I'll just use a small trolley, or go to the gym
). Usually parties are outdoor, playing for 6hours, for 50-100 people. It won't be the only speaker, it's to support an already existing setup with several boombox (sometimes only one Aiwa Exos-9, which is not enough, that's the main reason why I want to build it). My budget is between 500€ and 750€. I live in France and the wood I can get would cost me around 50€-100€ for MDF (which I entend to use).I'm not looking for perfection here. The project is basically a cheaper soundboks gen. 3.
Thanks a lot for the help
Here is the new build :
Mid/bass 10" drivers : Eminence Beta-10A – Thomann France x2
Tweeter compression 1" : Celestion CDX1-1010 – Thomann France
Horn. : Celestion H1-8050 – Thomann France
DSP 2x4: miniDSP Kits: miniDSP 2x4 kit
3way amp : WONDOM AA-AB35281 T-Amp Class D Amplifier Module 3x200W 3 Ohm - Audiophonics
36V battery : https://fra.grandado.com/products/3..._BwE&variant=UHJvZHVjdFZhcmlhbnQ6MjA1MDY4NDg3
Let me know what you think.
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That little Bluetooth amplifier isn’t going to put out any 100 watts on that low a supply voltage either. It’s not really a “PA system” - the proper description is “boom box”. Don’t expect miracles in terms of SPL or any deep bass - but it could get quite loud with a real 100 watts per channel behind it. It would take a 48 volt class D module to do it. To do it with a 12 volt battery pack use a real car audio amp, one with has the built in DC-DC converter to get it to a real 100 watts. Even the efficient class D ones are relatively inexpensive now - cheaper than building your own. Add a Bluetooth adapter and you’re done.
My first one of these was back in the 80’s - with 32 measured watts per channel and 8” PA speakers (similar to the famous BOFU). Ran off plug-in power, and would get loud as hell. The cassette deck was cut off of a “3-in1” stereo. We used it as a jobsite sound system - could hear it all over the entire floor of the building we were working in. In short, your speaker choice is probably fine given what you could really expect, but I’d rethink the amplification. *iIf* plug-in power is acceptable, maybe something like a “DX amplifier” board running off about +/-35 to 40V would do the trick.
My first one of these was back in the 80’s - with 32 measured watts per channel and 8” PA speakers (similar to the famous BOFU). Ran off plug-in power, and would get loud as hell. The cassette deck was cut off of a “3-in1” stereo. We used it as a jobsite sound system - could hear it all over the entire floor of the building we were working in. In short, your speaker choice is probably fine given what you could really expect, but I’d rethink the amplification. *iIf* plug-in power is acceptable, maybe something like a “DX amplifier” board running off about +/-35 to 40V would do the trick.
Small partie outdoor usually near walls so kinda inbetween outdoor and indoor for about 50 people. Playing electronic music. Mostly techno
let's say boom box then
I've gotta a friend helping me with this Tenghong TPA3156D2 Bluetooth 5.0 Subwoofer Amplifiers 2.1 Power Sound Amplifier Board 2*70W+140W Audio Amplificador With Panel|Amplifier| - AliExpress
So now I'm thinking about a 3way with 2x 10" woofer and 1" compression tweeter. My questions are : What crossover should I use ? Should I go for a horn loaded compression tweeter ?
I was thinking 1 sub from the 140w from 30hz to 625hz then 625hz to 5000hz at 70w and tweeter from 5khz to 18khz at 70w. Is it ok? Should I go for another order?
Best is to use a sub below 100Hz, then a 2 way top above that with a midbass and a compression driver with horn. Many systems are known in that config, commercial and diy.
And they will need a bit more power than those bluetooth amps can deliver. Crown and QSC make cheap but very good amps that fit such a system more and are rugged. On the really cheap you could take behringer or T-line amps (they are quiet decent for their price today). What you propose does not have the power needed at all and will sound bad.
Even for very small crowds, outside you need quiet a lot of power. I had a 50ppl crowd-party last weekend in a friends garden and the system was a 7kW 4 way dub soundsystem (2 hogs with 18" subwoofer drivers, 2 reflex kicks with 15" woofers, 2 10" mids and a compression driver in a horn, all playing in mono. It was not very loud, but loud enough for a small outside party. A month before we did the same with a new prototype of a commercial system launched by a friend called the Stakx minisoundsystem. I don't know the full details about it but it's also a 3 way system with powerfull class d (powersoft) amps and dsp:
Take a known and discussed design if you don't know how this works. That will take a lot of frustration away. A pair of G-Sub's with X12 tops from this site could give you a decent start: Speakerplans.com
These are not the best top notch designs, but old proven designs that sound fairly good and are relative easy to build. You will need a a 4-5kW amp channel (4ohm) for the G sub, a 1500w amp (4ohm) for the woofers in the X12 and a 100 to 150w (8ohm) channel for the compression driver. And a dsp to do the crossover thing. Amps could be crown or QSC, dsp could be DBX driverrack for this.
And more of those proven designs exist, many of them are documented online and build by many people. What i mention here is only one option but surely a lot better than what you mention. What you mention is a boombox, not fit for parties. So i think you need to adjust or your goal or your budget.
And they will need a bit more power than those bluetooth amps can deliver. Crown and QSC make cheap but very good amps that fit such a system more and are rugged. On the really cheap you could take behringer or T-line amps (they are quiet decent for their price today). What you propose does not have the power needed at all and will sound bad.
Even for very small crowds, outside you need quiet a lot of power. I had a 50ppl crowd-party last weekend in a friends garden and the system was a 7kW 4 way dub soundsystem (2 hogs with 18" subwoofer drivers, 2 reflex kicks with 15" woofers, 2 10" mids and a compression driver in a horn, all playing in mono. It was not very loud, but loud enough for a small outside party. A month before we did the same with a new prototype of a commercial system launched by a friend called the Stakx minisoundsystem. I don't know the full details about it but it's also a 3 way system with powerfull class d (powersoft) amps and dsp:
Take a known and discussed design if you don't know how this works. That will take a lot of frustration away. A pair of G-Sub's with X12 tops from this site could give you a decent start: Speakerplans.com
These are not the best top notch designs, but old proven designs that sound fairly good and are relative easy to build. You will need a a 4-5kW amp channel (4ohm) for the G sub, a 1500w amp (4ohm) for the woofers in the X12 and a 100 to 150w (8ohm) channel for the compression driver. And a dsp to do the crossover thing. Amps could be crown or QSC, dsp could be DBX driverrack for this.
And more of those proven designs exist, many of them are documented online and build by many people. What i mention here is only one option but surely a lot better than what you mention. What you mention is a boombox, not fit for parties. So i think you need to adjust or your goal or your budget.
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“Boom boxes” are suitable for parties, just not the kind of party that sounds like an underground rave. Back in the day, we used 8-D-cell ghetto blasters all the time. It was loud and obnoxious. My little 32 watt per channel thing was the ultimate version of one, but probably still a little smaller than what you want. Totally blew away what the paint crew was using - 3 inch speakers and 4 AA’s. They just didn’t realize how dorky reggae music sounded with NO BASS. This thing has bass. Not as loud or deep as my DJ rig, but good enough for a typical “party” - especially one where no one was paying. I doubt that $25 Bluetooth board would be even up to that task, though. It takes more voltage to generate the power, period. 48V BTL class D modules start to get into the power class that you want to get into. One is going to cost $100 and need 4 gel cells in series to run at full power. You can of course use a cheap low power module, but realize it is only going to go as loud as one of those 1980’s ghetto blaster boxes. The sound quality has improved somewhat on “boom boxes” over the years, but typically the speaker sensitivity is lower and they don’t play as loud as they used to. To move up to “PA” levels, you need both more power and more sensitive speakers - both of which cost real money.
If I were building a portable PA that ran off batteries I would use a 48 volt system, with two channels feeding 10’”+1” (Alpha10 or similar plus Selenium HF) and two SS15 subs using Kappa15LF drivers running off two more channels in BTL. All class D, ICEpower or similar. Cost would be about one grand.
If I were building a portable PA that ran off batteries I would use a 48 volt system, with two channels feeding 10’”+1” (Alpha10 or similar plus Selenium HF) and two SS15 subs using Kappa15LF drivers running off two more channels in BTL. All class D, ICEpower or similar. Cost would be about one grand.
The OP's reference of Soundboks makes me think Boominator (or Halfinator). Here is the (long) thread:
The Boominator - another stab at the ultimate party machine
Many of the links appear to be broken, but the gist of the Boominator design is 4x P-Audio HP-10W woofers & 4x Monacor MPT-001 Piezo tweeters in a reasonable sized box tuned to ~80Hz.
It is a pretty simple build, it gets loud, is pretty efficient & is pretty inexpensive. That said it doesn't dig deep & isn't the most refined but is still pretty convincing.
The Boominator - another stab at the ultimate party machine
Many of the links appear to be broken, but the gist of the Boominator design is 4x P-Audio HP-10W woofers & 4x Monacor MPT-001 Piezo tweeters in a reasonable sized box tuned to ~80Hz.
It is a pretty simple build, it gets loud, is pretty efficient & is pretty inexpensive. That said it doesn't dig deep & isn't the most refined but is still pretty convincing.
I don't expect it to be that loud. Even if I'd love to
It's more of a party for a group of friend to show of their last tracks and DJ skills. People are listening but it's also for friends to have a drink after work. Usually last around 5 hours and we often have multiple speakers. It's in the streets so it's free and we all do this for fun.
That's also part of why I don't have that much budget for it.
What if I use only those 10" + 1 horn loaded compression tweeter using the 2.1 2x70w + 140w amp? Using 24V battery and an active crossover ?
I might be able to upgrade the system later with the subs.
The idea is I'll need to move the system myself by foot for 20min so if its too heavy its gonna be hard to move with my controller and backpack...
Ive heard of the boominator and halfinator but my primary concern is those speakers that seems to be a key element with the design and they are not as cheaply available or even easy to find (at least where I live). So it feels a bit outdated.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the whole idea is to have a 80hz cutoff with 360 sound. First one i find a little bit sad, second one I don't need so much...
That's my first issue : How do I get those "close" speaker. Whatever I find is either out of stock or very expensive... Or if it's cheap it seems to be very far from the P.Audio speakers design. But if I was seriously considering a Boominator I would have poster on the original thread.
My Idea looks more like a soundboks gen. 3 OR something else, that would look like this
Edit : I know those are not 10" but I figured I could take the same design and adapt the scale from the speaker I choose.
I'm thinking that even if I start with low voltage battery and small amp I'll still be able to upgrade it later changing only those parts and keep the box/speaker that might be able to offer more with an upgrade like this. Or if I chose to make them suitable for indoor and getting rid of the battery powered part.
I'm reminding everyone that I'm not looking for the perfect speakers, I'm just trying to put my time to use to build something that will be cheaper than buying a 600€ commercial box.
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One key to a design like the Boominator is the 10" woofers have a fairly smooth, extended response & T/S parameters that work well in ported enclosures. The extended response allows the woofers to meet inexpensive Piezo tweeters that crossover @3-3.5kHz. Using a compression driver & horn is certainly an option, but it will push your budget.
In the US recommended woofers were the Goldwood GW-1058 & Eminence Basslite S2010, these should give you an idea of what you are looking for w/ regards to response & parameters.
The orientation of the box, bipole woofers & tuning are all things that can be changed depending on your goals. The tuning of the Boominator was chosen for impact & the width & bipole woofers to compensate for baffle losses & make "360 sound".
Your stated use is outdoor parties, which is similar to the Boominator use case, if you don't care about "360 sound" you could eliminate the bipole woofers, but you will want to place the speaker closer to boundaries, especially if you opt for a lower tuning.
A Halfinator w/ both woofers on the same face & a single tweeter (or compression driver & horn) is basically an inexpensive Soundboks. What brand of pro woofers do you have access to?
In the US recommended woofers were the Goldwood GW-1058 & Eminence Basslite S2010, these should give you an idea of what you are looking for w/ regards to response & parameters.
The orientation of the box, bipole woofers & tuning are all things that can be changed depending on your goals. The tuning of the Boominator was chosen for impact & the width & bipole woofers to compensate for baffle losses & make "360 sound".
Your stated use is outdoor parties, which is similar to the Boominator use case, if you don't care about "360 sound" you could eliminate the bipole woofers, but you will want to place the speaker closer to boundaries, especially if you opt for a lower tuning.
A Halfinator w/ both woofers on the same face & a single tweeter (or compression driver & horn) is basically an inexpensive Soundboks. What brand of pro woofers do you have access to?
Yep but from what I've seen it will push for like 20€ and that's ok. Not like puting 200e for one driver ^^
that's exactly what I'm aiming. an inexpensive Soundboks.
I'm curently in France so I've got acces to everything that's on amazon france and thomann.
So, Celestion, Eminence, Daycon, etc.
Unrelated but I've come accross this. I feel like I could take this design and build it as it is. Cost would be around 200-300 and specs seems to show that I could power it with 24V LiPo and the TPA3156D2: 140W for the woofer and the other amp (2*70W) for the tweeter. Or add a box in the middle and put an Eminence Alpha10 for mid-bass and go 3 way
let me know what you think
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An Alpha 10 2 way you’d be just fine - as well as using the Dayton 10” or the Goldwood which are also quite decent. The only caution is that that “140” watt rating is totally fictitious. 23 volts of signal swing into 4 ohms (assuming the amp is BTL, driving 2 woofers) is 66 watts. In half-bridge you go down by a factor of 4.
I built a pair of 2x10/1” using the Beta 10’s and Selenium D210 that look almost identical to the picture above - and the crossover quite similar too. Quite useable, even professionally in many situations - 70 Hz and up which does give some bass, don’t *need* a kilowatt to get loud and throw a couple hundred feet.
I built a pair of 2x10/1” using the Beta 10’s and Selenium D210 that look almost identical to the picture above - and the crossover quite similar too. Quite useable, even professionally in many situations - 70 Hz and up which does give some bass, don’t *need* a kilowatt to get loud and throw a couple hundred feet.
You can get 48 v 17 AH batteries LiIon for about $120. Is This Battery Pack for Real ($106) ?? | Electric Bike Forums - Q&A, Help, Reviews and Maintenance
buy a $30 charger off ebay, 54.6 v max 2 A. Connector TBD, andersn is reliable, I can't solder XT90 reliably personally.
If I were in the US I'd buy eminence 10" driver. Their specs mean what they say.
Deltapro10M, the link is broken.
Aluminum frame so it weighs less to carry. 53-4.4 khz 99.6 db 1w1m. 200 w rated 2" VC. The deltalite-15a has neo magnet to weigh even less, but costs more. DELTALITE® II 2510 - Loudspeakers | Eminence Speaker
If you are really saving $$ the Alpha-10a is 150 w rated with a 1.5" voice coil. ALPHA-10A - Loudspeakers | Eminence Speaker
buy a $30 charger off ebay, 54.6 v max 2 A. Connector TBD, andersn is reliable, I can't solder XT90 reliably personally.
If I were in the US I'd buy eminence 10" driver. Their specs mean what they say.
Deltapro10M, the link is broken.
Aluminum frame so it weighs less to carry. 53-4.4 khz 99.6 db 1w1m. 200 w rated 2" VC. The deltalite-15a has neo magnet to weigh even less, but costs more. DELTALITE® II 2510 - Loudspeakers | Eminence Speaker
If you are really saving $$ the Alpha-10a is 150 w rated with a 1.5" voice coil. ALPHA-10A - Loudspeakers | Eminence Speaker
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At 24V the TPA3156 can do ~120W bridged @ 2ohms, ~60W stereo @ 4ohms, ~30W stereo @ 8ohms. The only way you will get higher power is if you use a different amp made for higher voltage, in which case you could use a boost converter & the same 24V battery.
Based on what is available @ Thomann the Celestion TF1020 or Eminence Beta 10A (or maybe the Fane Sov 10-300) would be good bets for an inexpensive 2x 10" woofer execution. 2 woofers in parallel will provide a 4-ohm system which will work better w/ lower voltage.
For compression driver the Celestion CDX1-1010 or -1446 would be good bets w/ the Celestion H1-8050 Horn.
If the intended use is speaker on the ground it may be beneficial to mount the HF components above both woofers & do a 2.5-way crossover where the bottom woofer only plays the lows. If you ever intend to pole mount than the MTM setup shown above could be preferred. If you intend to pole mount you will lose some benefit of boundary loading, so you may want different tuning & to use sub(s).
Based on what is available @ Thomann the Celestion TF1020 or Eminence Beta 10A (or maybe the Fane Sov 10-300) would be good bets for an inexpensive 2x 10" woofer execution. 2 woofers in parallel will provide a 4-ohm system which will work better w/ lower voltage.
For compression driver the Celestion CDX1-1010 or -1446 would be good bets w/ the Celestion H1-8050 Horn.
If the intended use is speaker on the ground it may be beneficial to mount the HF components above both woofers & do a 2.5-way crossover where the bottom woofer only plays the lows. If you ever intend to pole mount than the MTM setup shown above could be preferred. If you intend to pole mount you will lose some benefit of boundary loading, so you may want different tuning & to use sub(s).
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Let's say I go for the 2x Eminence Beta-10 with the Celestion CDX1-1010 with Celestion H1-8050 Horn, the 24V LiPo with the TPA3156D2. I put the "140W" on one of the Eminence with a filter a 100Hz, the first "70W" for mid-bass with filters at 100Hz-1.5KHz and the second "70W" for the Celestion CDX1-1010 with filter at 1.5KHz. Build would be vented for the 2 10". What SPL should I expect at max volume? How do I calculate the max battery time at max volume ?
About the active cross over, do you have any suggestion?
About the box : should I build everything in one box or should I split each box for each speaker? the speaker would be on the ground with, from low to high, vent, 10" with only bass, 10" mid-bass, horn.
Thanks a lot for your help
About the active cross over, do you have any suggestion?
About the box : should I build everything in one box or should I split each box for each speaker? the speaker would be on the ground with, from low to high, vent, 10" with only bass, 10" mid-bass, horn.
Thanks a lot for your help
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