Hello everyone. This request for help may be well and truly covered but I had a quick look through the forum and couldn’t find anything that answered my questions.
I have recently taken the plunge and ripped all my CD’s to file using EAC. I now want to build a digital server which would sit on my audio rack to play back music and stream content such as Radio and possibly music from a cloud.
I have a high specked computer I brought a number of years ago as a graphics computer but never used so could use that. It has an Asus p8z68-v pro motherboard with a duel core i5 CPU two DDDR3 16gb of RAM a 1 tb hard drive and a 500w power supply.
My questions are; is there any issue with the mother board, will it fit into a audio sized box, will it process the info in a way to give the best results, I have read some very technical forums (which have gone way over my head) which suggest some mother boards handle the data and supply the power better than others. I could sell the computer and purchase a mini ATX which would fit into a smaller box
Dose the motherboard outputs analogy data? I want it to output digital data as it will be going through my DDDAC (DAC), is there a remedy.
I have read that digital processing is very dirty so could affect the audio signal going through the system, is there a way of preventing this, should I connect the server and DAC to separate power sockets to prevent contamination.
My system.
DDDAC
Naim nac 72 (Avondale audio mod)
Avondale NCC200 based duel mono amp
Home built 3.2 way floor standing speakers
Thanks for any help
I have recently taken the plunge and ripped all my CD’s to file using EAC. I now want to build a digital server which would sit on my audio rack to play back music and stream content such as Radio and possibly music from a cloud.
I have a high specked computer I brought a number of years ago as a graphics computer but never used so could use that. It has an Asus p8z68-v pro motherboard with a duel core i5 CPU two DDDR3 16gb of RAM a 1 tb hard drive and a 500w power supply.
My questions are; is there any issue with the mother board, will it fit into a audio sized box, will it process the info in a way to give the best results, I have read some very technical forums (which have gone way over my head) which suggest some mother boards handle the data and supply the power better than others. I could sell the computer and purchase a mini ATX which would fit into a smaller box
Dose the motherboard outputs analogy data? I want it to output digital data as it will be going through my DDDAC (DAC), is there a remedy.
I have read that digital processing is very dirty so could affect the audio signal going through the system, is there a way of preventing this, should I connect the server and DAC to separate power sockets to prevent contamination.
My system.
DDDAC
Naim nac 72 (Avondale audio mod)
Avondale NCC200 based duel mono amp
Home built 3.2 way floor standing speakers
Thanks for any help
Why hack up a perfectly good pc?
I would suggest getting a Ras Pi (or similar small footprint computer) add a DAC to interface with your existing Audio system and use your PC with an Ethernet cable or wireless card to share your newly created digital library with it. Max2play, Moode and a few others I can't remember provide software for RAS Pi free or at such a low cost it's hardly worth the effort to jam a pc into an audio rack.
Just A Thought.
I would suggest getting a Ras Pi (or similar small footprint computer) add a DAC to interface with your existing Audio system and use your PC with an Ethernet cable or wireless card to share your newly created digital library with it. Max2play, Moode and a few others I can't remember provide software for RAS Pi free or at such a low cost it's hardly worth the effort to jam a pc into an audio rack.
Just A Thought.
You could use the computer with Daphile installed and put it in a cupboard. There is no need to see that box. It is probably too high-powered for this solution though.
To where are the CDSs ripped, that is, what storage? An alternative might be to use that computer as a NAS (network attached storage) using FreeNAS (FreeNAS Storage Operating System | Open Source - FreeNAS - Open Source Storage Operating System).
A NAS can sit anywhere as long as it has power and a network connection. You will need to buy at least two NAS drives of at least 2TB, but you will have storage you can use for a number of purposes, such as backups for any other computer you have.
For a rack case, you could get something like this 2U case (TGC-23650 2U Rackmount Server Chassis-Products-DONGHE ENTERPRISE GROUP LIMITED) and put in a motherboard (anything from mini-ITX to ATX) with a low power CPU, use a small 2.5 inch drive (sell the 1TB drive or use it for something else), install Daphile and, if you have a real phone (ie, not an iPhone), use Squeezer to control the Daphile box. With a wake-on-lan motherboard (most these days), you could use an app to turn on the Daphile box which then could turn on the amp with a suitable interface and relay (not hard to do).
I do have a FreeNAS NAS and Daphile and it works brilliantly. Daphile ? Digital Music Convenience for Audiophiles
To where are the CDSs ripped, that is, what storage? An alternative might be to use that computer as a NAS (network attached storage) using FreeNAS (FreeNAS Storage Operating System | Open Source - FreeNAS - Open Source Storage Operating System).
A NAS can sit anywhere as long as it has power and a network connection. You will need to buy at least two NAS drives of at least 2TB, but you will have storage you can use for a number of purposes, such as backups for any other computer you have.
For a rack case, you could get something like this 2U case (TGC-23650 2U Rackmount Server Chassis-Products-DONGHE ENTERPRISE GROUP LIMITED) and put in a motherboard (anything from mini-ITX to ATX) with a low power CPU, use a small 2.5 inch drive (sell the 1TB drive or use it for something else), install Daphile and, if you have a real phone (ie, not an iPhone), use Squeezer to control the Daphile box. With a wake-on-lan motherboard (most these days), you could use an app to turn on the Daphile box which then could turn on the amp with a suitable interface and relay (not hard to do).
I do have a FreeNAS NAS and Daphile and it works brilliantly. Daphile ? Digital Music Convenience for Audiophiles
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thanks both for the advice. I originally wanted to have the server in the rack as it would be a nightmare to get a cable down from the computer and into the DAC, but having now looked into it a bit more I think I will go wireless.
I am still a bit unclear about how to do this though will look into the info Tromperie sent.
just a quick question: why cant I plug in a wireless dongle into my computer, one in the DAC and control the lot through an app on my phone?
also why would I need a Raspberry Pi, what purpose would it serve the computer couldn't do?
Thanks again both
I am still a bit unclear about how to do this though will look into the info Tromperie sent.
just a quick question: why cant I plug in a wireless dongle into my computer, one in the DAC and control the lot through an app on my phone?
also why would I need a Raspberry Pi, what purpose would it serve the computer couldn't do?
Thanks again both
Ras Pi is just a fanless, small, cheap interface (computer) for your existing audio system. With a home network setup you could set your pc and it up to stream music and control it with the pc or any other device on your network. The main advantages being lower cost and less noise. Again just another option that myself and others have used with great success. It just does what the computer does in a smaller package with less noise and power consumption.
Good luck with your project whatever direction you choose.
Good luck with your project whatever direction you choose.
https://www.newit.co.uk/shop/CubieTruck_Complete
^^^I have that serving audio 7x24. If you're attaching via USB, only question is Linux support for your DDDAC and finding a decent dist for the Cubietruck that handles the player control and front end.
Volumio or Runeaudio might tick that box.
^^^I have that serving audio 7x24. If you're attaching via USB, only question is Linux support for your DDDAC and finding a decent dist for the Cubietruck that handles the player control and front end.
Volumio or Runeaudio might tick that box.
Another low-cost option is an x86 fanless thin client. E.g. HP T5740 for 30 EUR incl. shipping HP ThinClient T5740 Atom 1,66GHz 2GB Flash 2GB RAM ink Adapter Standfuß ohne OS | eBay . 2GB DDR3, 2GB IDE flash drive, 2 x native SATA (the second SATA via mSATA-SATA adapter), gigabit ethernet, good quality power supply, 12W consumption HP Thin Client: t5740
I measured the SATA throughput - 200MB/s reading SSD.
I measured the SATA throughput - 200MB/s reading SSD.
Your questions semi-regularly come up on this forum. We really need a music server wiki page.
For a basic overview of network music system configuration, may I recommend a post I made back in Jan 2015 -
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/267074-slice-media-player.html#post4183982
I will address two of your questions:
A better solution would be to buy a good USB-to-I2S interface box - the XMOS-based units are readily obtainable. Such a USB-I2S interface would be ideal for your ASUS motherboard ...
... but as others have already mentioned, your x86 motherboard is bulky, high energy-consuming, and unnecessarily over-powered,
so a good solution would be to use a USB-I2S interface in conjunction with with a Raspberry Pi ... or better still, a BeagleBone Black.
For a basic overview of network music system configuration, may I recommend a post I made back in Jan 2015 -
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/267074-slice-media-player.html#post4183982
I will address two of your questions:
Digital processing (or re-processing) is not so much "dirty" as downright destructive. The solution is to configure your operating system and playback application to handle the music data bit-perfectly. In Windows and Mac OS there are various tweaks and third-party "audio engine" applications which can achieve this. In Linux you only need to do a simple configuration change to the ALSA sound system.
The DDDAC has I2S digital input. I think your ASUS P8Z68-V has toslink digital output, so a possible solution would be to buy an optical s/pdif-to-I2S interface device ... but this process technically involves 2 stages of jitter creation (s/pdif encode, s/pdif decode).
A better solution would be to buy a good USB-to-I2S interface box - the XMOS-based units are readily obtainable. Such a USB-I2S interface would be ideal for your ASUS motherboard ...
... but as others have already mentioned, your x86 motherboard is bulky, high energy-consuming, and unnecessarily over-powered,
so a good solution would be to use a USB-I2S interface in conjunction with with a Raspberry Pi ... or better still, a BeagleBone Black.
I've read all the stories about how digital volume control is bad, how you have to use optical not usb, and all that.... Far as I can tell, there is nothing actually "bad" about digital, and all the worries are inaudible. None of the blind testing actually hears any difference.
Start with something very inexpensive, a RasberryPI server. See how it sounds to you. Cost you less than a dinner.
Start with something very inexpensive, a RasberryPI server. See how it sounds to you. Cost you less than a dinner.
Thank you for this most useful information ! Exactly what I needed and I found one locally for ~$28US.
Just arrived today and as an interim test I am running Volumio x86 from a Usb flashdrive on it. I am very pleased at how capable and stable it is. Everything you said and more. 🙂
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There are a lot of websites out there if you look. Not sure which one's are the best though. Here's a couple:
Pi MusicBox - A Spotify, SoundCloud, Google Music player for the Raspberry Pi, with remote control
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/turn-your-raspberry-pi-into-the-ultimate-music-streamer/
I am glad it works for you. Actually, that small slot is not mSATA, but miniPCI-express. I ordered an adapter cable to test if it can host a regular PCI-e SATA controller
Interesting HW - thanks for sharing. Do you have concrete OS/player SW in mind or do you intend to use it as sandbox platform only?
Michal
Actually there is a header for second non-soldered SATA port on the board. I ordered connectors 5Pcs Sata 7+15 Pin 22 Pin Type 1.6 Female Adapter Connector For Hard Drive HDD | eBay and will check performance of both SATAs at the same time.
Actually my previous audio appliances are based on FS Futros. These are even cheaper and offer space for an internal PCI card or digital amp module. They even fit a slim CD/DVD drive for CD audio playback. Unfortunately they consume a bit more watts.
For now I have no specific plans with the T5740 but it will be of use 🙂
Actually my previous audio appliances are based on FS Futros. These are even cheaper and offer space for an internal PCI card or digital amp module. They even fit a slim CD/DVD drive for CD audio playback. Unfortunately they consume a bit more watts.
For now I have no specific plans with the T5740 but it will be of use 🙂
I'd suggest a server-client model (not just because I'm biased!). Your noisy old PC would make a great music server - but away from the listening area. Perhaps in the garage. Mine lives in the garage.
Look at SeeDeClip4 from www.cutestudio.net
It allows you to setup a multi-user music server for free, you get to leave the PC unhacked and all it needs is the music files + a LAN/Wifi.
For the client I suggest using an iPad streaming to an Airport Express or Apple TV (TOSLINK out), which is then connected to your DDDAC.
Not really, it depends on your music - but look at the waveform of a modern pop song (that you may have recently ripped) in Audacity and marvel at the compression and clipping.
Some processing can clean that up, by for free SeeDeClip4 will analyse the music to 'score' the mastering quality of each track - so you just pick the better ones. It's bit-perfect if you want, but for modern CDs that's not always such a good thing.
You're welcome.
I may not add any valuable info for the poster, but this is how I have it set up:
I have a server here at home in the special A/C closet that has two hard drives. A boot drive and storage drive. This hosts my website etc along with a SAMBA share for music.
I have a second, less powerful pc for playback in a case of an old amplifier that was thrown out, which fits into a 3U rackspace. It has Windows installed, Foobar2000 outputting through ASIO into Digital Optical Out, that feeds into my DAC inside my amplifier.
If that may be of any use perhaps, feel free to ask more questions about it.
I have a server here at home in the special A/C closet that has two hard drives. A boot drive and storage drive. This hosts my website etc along with a SAMBA share for music.
I have a second, less powerful pc for playback in a case of an old amplifier that was thrown out, which fits into a 3U rackspace. It has Windows installed, Foobar2000 outputting through ASIO into Digital Optical Out, that feeds into my DAC inside my amplifier.
If that may be of any use perhaps, feel free to ask more questions about it.
Can you please point me to the cheetsheet/pro tip on configuring Alsa to be "bit-perfect". Very long time Linux user (desktop and server - systems engineer), and would love to know more about this.
In general, you simply need to setup ALSA to output to hardware instead of via the ALSA dmix (direct mixing) plugin. dmix is used by default for all non-multichannel cards, and this is usually determined by the particular ALSA driver which is in use.
Bypassing dmix can be done systemwide via the configuration file /etc/asound.conf
or at user level via the configuration file ~/.asoundrc
or, in some cases, at application level via the application's configuration.
Here's the suitable configuration for /etc/asound.conf or ~/.asoundrc
The exclamation sign causes the previous definition of pcm.default to be overridden, so we don’t have to worry about the default configuration file /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.
You can also bypass dmix at application level, with a suitable change to its configuration file, or by launching it from the commandline with suitable parameters. Obviously this means that only that particular application is then bit-perfect on your system. For example, here's the suitable configuration for Music Player Daemon, via /etc/mpd.conf -
In years gone by I recall there were some applications which failed to bypass dmix, even when suitably configured, and I suspect this is a failure of the application to correctly interact with the ALSA configuration.
Bottom line: bypassing dmix is most reliable when done systemwide.
Finally, for bit-perfect output you also need to disable your application's internal software volume control (if it exists). For Music Player Daemon, /etc/mpd.conf should have this -
Bypassing dmix can be done systemwide via the configuration file /etc/asound.conf
or at user level via the configuration file ~/.asoundrc
or, in some cases, at application level via the application's configuration.
Here's the suitable configuration for /etc/asound.conf or ~/.asoundrc
Code:
pcm.!default {
type hw
card 0
}
ctl.!default {
type hw
card 0
}You can also bypass dmix at application level, with a suitable change to its configuration file, or by launching it from the commandline with suitable parameters. Obviously this means that only that particular application is then bit-perfect on your system. For example, here's the suitable configuration for Music Player Daemon, via /etc/mpd.conf -
Code:
audio_output {
type "alsa"
device "hw:0,0"
...
}Bottom line: bypassing dmix is most reliable when done systemwide.
Finally, for bit-perfect output you also need to disable your application's internal software volume control (if it exists). For Music Player Daemon, /etc/mpd.conf should have this -
Code:
audio_output {
...
mixer_type "none"
...
}- Status
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