Multiway speaker crossover capacitors - differences

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Thanks again for the insight and knowledge. I am flabbergasted at how little I actually know about speaker building. And also humbled before someone who actually does.

This conversation has at last cleared my head and I am now more confident in using the cheaper MKP capacitors. As I said before, I was hesitant to use the pricier because I was unsure it would make a difference and even if it did, would I notice. I have great confidence in the design of the crossover and of the overall design of the speakers. So if there would be any advantages to be had using the super caps, my overall system might not be up to the task of showing it.

I have just pushed the button and put on order in for the cheaper MKP capacitors. Just a weeks wait and they should be here and I can finally (this project has been on the table for about 7 months now) assemble the crossover and cut the cabinet parts.

If finances and time and energy will permit, maybe I will try the super caps or try the method you described. Just to see/hear for myself.
I have to bone up on electrical works and read a few more books on designing good speakers... or bad... you live, you learn 🙂

If someone has something to add, the topic is still open. Even though I've ordered my parts there might still be someone pondering these same questions. And I'm still interested in reading other opinions and theories.

😉😀
There used to be an advert that said "No-one ever got sacked for ordering IBM..."

This sort of psychology appeals to the person who wants to play it safe. Here you are designing your new speaker and you wonder if fitting cheap capacitors will ruin it. Well, it won't. 🙂

It makes far more difference whether you fit a Zobel to a tweeter, or a tank to a bass coil and such. And choose your drivers with care. 😎
 
There always have been better electrolytics for amplifiers and power supplies. The famous old Rubycon Black Gate springs to mind. You could often dramatically improve cheap CD players by improving the audio output capacitor too. I used to do that to Marantz CD players when I had time on my hands.

In fact the only difference between the "Special Edition" top model and the cheaper version was often just that capacitor. 🙄

But polar electrolytics aren't used in loudspeakers. Not linear enough.

What is a real pain about boutique polypropylene capacitors is that they are so big and expensive. I'd rather have a load of cheap ones to swap about than a few expensive ones. I really can't hear any difference. Certainly not distortion, maybe a tidge of level.

Below is a yellow 630V 4.7uF bass shunt. The tweeter has black Solen 3.9uF or 4.7uf 250V types. The 250V jobbies are plain nicer to work with. 🙂
MKP Polypropylene Capacitors

The second filter has 630V types throughout. I had a job squeezing them in.


Since I have already ordered (just 15 min ago) my capacitors I have the courage to ask, what exactly are boutique capacitors ? Does this have something to do with extra special virgin olive oil(joke) or some rare spaceage metal found in the himalayans (another joke 🙂 ) used in the manufacturing process(actual question 🙂 ) ?

And another thing that kept popping up while I was researching the subject. What exactly is microphoning? And how does it affect the capacitor.

This is a bit sidetracking but since I was OP... Does it matter where in the crossover I place the coils, caps or resistors? Physically I mean.

And I have also have been douped by the smooth talking snake oil peddlers at my local hifi-shop. I was very close (this was some while ago mind you, I've gotten a lots smartsier since 🙂 ) to buying 200 euros worth of "******* insert some ancillary device/accessory/hifi-hokum" - just because "It would really complement your system". 😡 I have since tried to make every effort in finding out if it, whatever IT is, really does make a difference and will it actually matter if it did.

Thanks for the pics btw.
 
There used to be an advert that said "No-one ever got sacked for ordering IBM..."

This sort of psychology appeals to the person who wants to play it safe. Here you are designing your new speaker and you wonder if fitting cheap capacitors will ruin it. Well, it won't. 🙂

It makes far more difference whether you fit a Zobel to a tweeter, or a tank to a bass coil and such. And choose your drivers with care. 😎
I came to the same conclusion. Just trying to cover all the bases.

Incidentally the design of the speaker is already done. I am just following instructions. In the instructions it didn't exactly specify which capacitors to be used but there was a strong favoring towards the priciers ones.
As I said before. I have every confidence in the design. This is merely an attempt to cut excess costs and me trying to dot the i's and cross the t's... and get to the bottom of this capacitor issue. 🙂

I value your opinion good sir.
 
The bottom line is that polypropylenes all work extremely well. 🙂

Least of our worries, if you like. I would be tempted to avoid ferrite core coils if I wanted to improve the sound. On the other hand, most speakers use ferrite magnets, so you won't eliminate non-linearities entirely. Baked and lacquered coils are better too. They are more of a solid lump than loosely wound coils.

Microphony is really about the huge sound levels within a cabinet. Everything is getting shaken to bits at high volume. It's 10 or 20 times louder in the cabinet than outside it. That's why we tie or glue down components. I tie them down with zip-ties because I'm forever tweaking values. Poor solder joints breaking are more of a worry than vibration IMO.

Huge debates about cabinet bracing at these sort of forums. It's a double-edged sword. Overly rigid and braced front panels stress drive units and chassis into ringing. My school of thought tends to the lossy type:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/223174-interesting-read-i-found-lossy-cabinet-designs-harbeth.html#post3234256

Be interested to hear about your new design. I could probably tell you the main difficulties in implementing it.
 
There used to be an advert that said "No-one ever got sacked for ordering IBM..."

This sort of psychology appeals to the person who wants to play it safe. Here you are designing your new speaker and you wonder if fitting cheap capacitors will ruin it. Well, it won't. 🙂

It makes far more difference whether you fit a Zobel to a tweeter, or a tank to a bass coil and such. And choose your drivers with care. 😎

Amen.
 
Thank you very much for you advice. It has really helped and eased the decision making process.
As I already posted, I did indeed order the 400v 3-5% tolerance capacitors. They were cheaper but still quite expensive considering the total cost of the other materials. But hey, this is a hobby and hobbies cost... a lot it seems =).

Now if some could point me in the right direction where I could find some advice on the cabinet construction. I need to know what sealant to use to make the cabinet airtight inside. Silicone or something else ? The edges are cut to a near perfect 45 degree angle but they did leave a small, maybe 1mm gap between the inside edges. The outer edges are superb.

I know this doesn't belong in this section but I did try to search for cabinet construction on this forum and did not find any threads regarding this particular issue.
 
I always use white "PVA" glue for my cabinets. (in my case "Ponal classic")
If enough glue is used some will be pressed out of the joint and will seal all gaps.
If it does not come out put a extra amount inside the corners and use a brush to fill all gaps with glue.
It is also possible to mix the glue with about 30% sawdust.
No need to use expensive sealant that may outgas agressive fumes.
 
There seems to be no conclusive study on the matter.
No "real" testing done to actually determine once and for all if there really is a difference.

actually, there has been.

years ago -

Picking Capacitors - Walter G. Jung and Richard Marsh



After the intro. The questions.


3.1. Assuming the answers to question 1 is "yes". Who makes the "best" capacitors?

in the event that, 'better', means less distortion,

perhaps here -

Duelund Coherent Audio – Manufacturers of loudspeakers, cables and power filters. Denmark.

more about caps -

https://linearaudio.nl/sites/linearaudio.net/files/mundorf-2.pdf

How about mounting the crossover outside the cabinet?

might be a good idea ...



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random pic section -

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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
 
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