From what I've heard there're audio engineers that mix low frequency content even to the surrounds. Movies are remixed for DVD or Blu-ray. The same speaker models for all 5 or 7 channels are used.
An AVR should do the summing. Klein + Hummel does it in their active subwoofers.
Best, Markus
An AVR should do the summing. Klein + Hummel does it in their active subwoofers.
Best, Markus
markus76 said:
This was hotly debated over at AVS and the conclusion was that it was rare. Does happen, but rarely.
So how would the signal routing look like? In case of filters on the mains a simple y-cable won't make it?
Best, Markus
Best, Markus
Markus
I don't understand. I gave you the routing and I don't use or recommend filters on the mains.
I don't understand. I gave you the routing and I don't use or recommend filters on the mains.
Hi Earl,
Do this service only work if you provide the subs?
Would it be possible to use any sub, or do you need to know the specs of the subs to adjust the settings?
Do this service only work if you provide the subs?
Would it be possible to use any sub, or do you need to know the specs of the subs to adjust the settings?
I could do this for any subs, but whats the carret for me in that case? To charge for the service it would have to be pretty steep, so much so that I don't see it as worthwhile. Maybe I'm wrong. What would you pay for such a service?
Earl,
When do you think you will post on your website, the parameters and cose of your sub package?
When do you think you will post on your website, the parameters and cose of your sub package?
gedlee said:
So the routing with two speakers or stereo should look like this?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
With more than 2 channels it's complicated even if an AVR is capable of routing bass to speakers and sub at the same time. There will be signals for which the whole thing is not calibrated for, e.g. LFE played back by the subs but not by the mains.
To avoid this you'll need an AVR that is capable of feeding the low frequencies of all channels to the sub out and back to all speakers—the LFE would need to be routed to every speaker too.
Implementation would be much easier if your code could work with fixed HP filtered speakers. Then nearly every AVR could be used.
Best, Markus
Markus
That routing is basically correct, although one could just as easily take the L&R out of the DCX unit, but I know that audiophiles have issues with that. What you show is what I do.
It is my understanding (from an alternate site) that ALL AVRs will put the LFE onto any channel that is listed as "large" if the "No Sub" option is set. It's a standard function of the chips. This then covers 90% of the problems and if there is no unique center channel bass then all the bases are covered.
That routing is basically correct, although one could just as easily take the L&R out of the DCX unit, but I know that audiophiles have issues with that. What you show is what I do.
It is my understanding (from an alternate site) that ALL AVRs will put the LFE onto any channel that is listed as "large" if the "No Sub" option is set. It's a standard function of the chips. This then covers 90% of the problems and if there is no unique center channel bass then all the bases are covered.
gedlee said:
That's correct. But how do you get the sum of all channels into the DCX? You would need an AVR with preamp outs and a mixer.
Best, Markus
Please fill in where I went off track on this. I feel like I am missing something in this discussion.
On the DCX, can't you set all of the output channels to the one input channel?
So wouldn't it just be the normal sub out channel, the ".1" going into the DCX? Then the DCX controller feeds sub amp the filtered signal?
-Tony
On the DCX, can't you set all of the output channels to the one input channel?
So wouldn't it just be the normal sub out channel, the ".1" going into the DCX? Then the DCX controller feeds sub amp the filtered signal?
-Tony
Tony,
that won't work because we need to bandsplit the signal to each speaker, sum the low frequencies and sum back into each channel.
Earls goal is to have ALL low frequency content available to ALL speakers at the same time.
Best, Markus
that won't work because we need to bandsplit the signal to each speaker, sum the low frequencies and sum back into each channel.
Earls goal is to have ALL low frequency content available to ALL speakers at the same time.
Best, Markus
But you can send the full stereo signal to two low/mid channels, and the same signal to two other channels where you sum it and filter it to whatever you want for your sub. IOW, the low freq content can be summed to a sub as well as be filtered to a set of two-channel outputs at the same time. Isn't that what you need?
Example: channels 1 & 2 have stereo low/mid at 20Hz-400Hz, channels 3 & 4 have summed sub at 20Hz-60Hz.
Jan Didden
Example: channels 1 & 2 have stereo low/mid at 20Hz-400Hz, channels 3 & 4 have summed sub at 20Hz-60Hz.
Jan Didden
Hi Jan,
that's correct for stereo but we were talking about 5.1 or even 7.1 and at least 3 independent sub channels. Furthermore I wouldn't want the DCX to sit in the signal path after the main volume control. For subs it's ok but not for the mains.
Best, Markus
that's correct for stereo but we were talking about 5.1 or even 7.1 and at least 3 independent sub channels. Furthermore I wouldn't want the DCX to sit in the signal path after the main volume control. For subs it's ok but not for the mains.
Best, Markus
markus76 said:
OK, I see.
BTW That's why I modified my DCX with a remote controlled multichannel level control AFTER the DAC...
Jan Didden
...which is the optimal solution. There are several other multichannel volume controls out there.
Nevertheless if you don't use the DCX's digital in (which is buggy and can only be used for 2 channel pcm audio—NOT multichannel streams), there will be an additional A/D/A conversion. I don't believe that this conversion is audible—just to get the whole picture.
Best, Markus
Nevertheless if you don't use the DCX's digital in (which is buggy and can only be used for 2 channel pcm audio—NOT multichannel streams), there will be an additional A/D/A conversion. I don't believe that this conversion is audible—just to get the whole picture.
Best, Markus
I will stand by what I said before, The DCX works fine as long as the center channel does not have unique LF content, in which case, it won't be properly played. BUT, from what I can tell this caveat is not an issue at the present time and unlikely to ever be one.
I would, in general, prefer not to send the mains signal through the DCX especially after the volume control. Subs are fine.
I would, in general, prefer not to send the mains signal through the DCX especially after the volume control. Subs are fine.
Hi Earl,
still I'm not sure how you want to extract the L and R signal from an AVR.
Best, Markus
still I'm not sure how you want to extract the L and R signal from an AVR.
Best, Markus
randybes said:
I'm trying to get my web site redone and this is causing some delays with updating it. I would estimate the subs at about $400-500 and will be very close to the AI BB15 and BB12 http://www.ai-audio.com/products_bb12.html . I intend to add a 10" sub as well at a lower cost.