First, the setup:
- Two Alpine SWR-1243Ds in 6 cubic feet tuned to 37Hz.
- Alpine PDX-M12 amplifier (1200W RMS at regulated between 2 or 4 ohms)
I do realize that the enclosure is quite over-sized by a factor of two (Alpine recommends 1.5CF per subwoofer). As a result, there is a significant boost in bass in the 35Hz-45Hz that I'm pretty happy with but I am now wondering if there is something else out there with a bit better bandwith while retaining this feature.
Given the power I'm sending, I don't even think I'm using the Alpines to their full extend as the port loads the woofers down and excursion never exceeds ~14mm until 30Hz (the Type R's are Klippel verified at ±20mm xmax and 70mm p-p before damage). Since I already have quite a large box, I was wondering if there is another 12" woofer that is has a lower Q resonance and generous enough travel to get more output out of the large enclosure.
One woofer that piqued my interest is the Eminence LAB12C which appears to be 3dB louder in sensitivity and has a 3x higher compliance (130L vs Alpines 43L).
I realized that I'm not really that interested in sub bass <35Hz but rather would like to hit 35-70Hz more loudly while keeping power the same (~1000-1200W).
The other thing I'm wondering is if I'm somehow downgrading in SQ or durability as the LAB12C looks like a very old-school, albeit industrial design (no shorting rings, no woven tinsel leads, foam surround, etc...). On the other hand, it is very similar to an old-school Adire Audio Shiva I used to run 15 years ago which got down very hard on just 300W.
As a side note, and a little off topic in terms of my design objective, I also have a pair of DC Audio XL 12s that I picked up last year (for a potential project if I decided to go with a huge electrical system to back up sufficient amplification). These things are 60lb a piece, 3" 2200W RMS coils, rated at 87dB. This is something I can also run but am I correct in saying that their benefits will not be realized compared to the Type R's or LAB12s on 1000W?
Any opinions on the Alpine Type R, LAB12C, or using a grossly overmotored subwoofer such as the DC XL 12 on low power. I understand that the QTS will drop when large-signal is applied so it may not be as peaky as the graph indicates. Also inductance on the XL is a whopping 5mH compared to 2mH and 1mH for the Alpine and LAB12, respectively and I know that WinISD does not model this at all.
I've attached a WinISD graph showing the three woofers in the 6CF box tuned to 37Hz on 1000W.
-Green curve = Eminence LAB 12
-Red curve = Alpine SWR-1243D
-Yellow curve = DC Audio XL m2 12
Thanks for any advice.
- Two Alpine SWR-1243Ds in 6 cubic feet tuned to 37Hz.
- Alpine PDX-M12 amplifier (1200W RMS at regulated between 2 or 4 ohms)
I do realize that the enclosure is quite over-sized by a factor of two (Alpine recommends 1.5CF per subwoofer). As a result, there is a significant boost in bass in the 35Hz-45Hz that I'm pretty happy with but I am now wondering if there is something else out there with a bit better bandwith while retaining this feature.
Given the power I'm sending, I don't even think I'm using the Alpines to their full extend as the port loads the woofers down and excursion never exceeds ~14mm until 30Hz (the Type R's are Klippel verified at ±20mm xmax and 70mm p-p before damage). Since I already have quite a large box, I was wondering if there is another 12" woofer that is has a lower Q resonance and generous enough travel to get more output out of the large enclosure.
One woofer that piqued my interest is the Eminence LAB12C which appears to be 3dB louder in sensitivity and has a 3x higher compliance (130L vs Alpines 43L).
I realized that I'm not really that interested in sub bass <35Hz but rather would like to hit 35-70Hz more loudly while keeping power the same (~1000-1200W).
The other thing I'm wondering is if I'm somehow downgrading in SQ or durability as the LAB12C looks like a very old-school, albeit industrial design (no shorting rings, no woven tinsel leads, foam surround, etc...). On the other hand, it is very similar to an old-school Adire Audio Shiva I used to run 15 years ago which got down very hard on just 300W.
As a side note, and a little off topic in terms of my design objective, I also have a pair of DC Audio XL 12s that I picked up last year (for a potential project if I decided to go with a huge electrical system to back up sufficient amplification). These things are 60lb a piece, 3" 2200W RMS coils, rated at 87dB. This is something I can also run but am I correct in saying that their benefits will not be realized compared to the Type R's or LAB12s on 1000W?
Any opinions on the Alpine Type R, LAB12C, or using a grossly overmotored subwoofer such as the DC XL 12 on low power. I understand that the QTS will drop when large-signal is applied so it may not be as peaky as the graph indicates. Also inductance on the XL is a whopping 5mH compared to 2mH and 1mH for the Alpine and LAB12, respectively and I know that WinISD does not model this at all.
I've attached a WinISD graph showing the three woofers in the 6CF box tuned to 37Hz on 1000W.
-Green curve = Eminence LAB 12
-Red curve = Alpine SWR-1243D
-Yellow curve = DC Audio XL m2 12
Thanks for any advice.
Do you use this stuff in a car? So you already seem to be quite deaf. Poor boy.
No, no advice possible. Maybe get a hearing aid if 124 dB are not loud enough.
This is kind of a satan´s circle: Too loud speakers damages ears, even louder speakers needed, ears more damaged need even more noise and so on... can´t help.
No, no advice possible. Maybe get a hearing aid if 124 dB are not loud enough.
This is kind of a satan´s circle: Too loud speakers damages ears, even louder speakers needed, ears more damaged need even more noise and so on... can´t help.
It's actually going to be higher than that in-car, due to cabin again. In any case, it's at low bass frequencies, so not THAT damaging to the ears. What's likely be more damaging is when the front speakers are turned up to try and match the output from the subs.
When you take the impact of driver inductance and semi-inductance into consideration, the graph looks even more peaky (see attached photo).
The LAB12C should work fine, and the graph should be less peaky.
I've been looking at this particular driver for awhile as a possible replacement for my Alpine Type R 12s - the Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4.
Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm
I use my Type R 12" drivers in a sealed enclosure though, with about 1.5 cu.ft. per driver. I don't really likely peaky bass.
The LAB12C should work fine, and the graph should be less peaky.
I've been looking at this particular driver for awhile as a possible replacement for my Alpine Type R 12s - the Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4.
Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm
I use my Type R 12" drivers in a sealed enclosure though, with about 1.5 cu.ft. per driver. I don't really likely peaky bass.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.