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Moskido PCB's For Sale - IRF Type

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opc

Member
Paid Member
2004-10-15 10:57 pm
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Hi Everyone,

I felt like I was hi-jacking the Moskido thread, so I figured it was finally time to post this here in the "For Sale" area.

I helped a friend design a PCB for an IRF based Moskido amplifier, and when we placed the order for the boards, we got a price break for 20 units so that's what we ordered. He used a pair, and I'm keeping a pair, and the other 8 pairs are up for grabs.

For details on the PCB layout and schematic please take a look at the Moskido thread here:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1425134#post1425134

There is also a PDF with a full schematic and parts list available, but you'll have to send me an e-mail if you want it, since it's too large to post here.

We have built the amplifier, and it works beautifully and sounds superb. I checked the output on a scope and it's clean as can be. Distortion was also measured into a dummy load at full power, and the result was 0.3% which seems to agree with the simulation data on the Moskido website. There's absolutely no hum on the output thanks to careful power supply filtering and layout, as well as a DC filament supply for the tubes.

Anyone interested please let me know and I'll give you the Paypal payment info. The price for two PCB's (one per channel) is $80 and that includes shipping in North America.

Feel free to contact me with any questions, and happy building!

Cheers,
Owen
 

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opc

Member
Paid Member
2004-10-15 10:57 pm
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
PCB pricing

Hi Landoctor

That price is for two 43sq. inch PCB's and shipping. No parts are included.

Shipping from Canada is $12 (Xpresspost) so that makes each PCB $34.

If you consider that a single Aikido PCB costs $25, and that this board includes an Aikido section, a full power supply section (both LV and HV) and the power output section, I think it's a pretty solid deal.

Even if you just populated the Aikido and HV PS section, you'd still be getting your money's worth.

The 20 boards cost $475 plus shipping, which was $22 so each board was $25. I planned on making $10 per PCB to offset the cost of my boards and my friend's boards, and that' makes about $35 per board.

Hope this clarifies things...

Owen
 

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Owen : did you ask JB for permission to use his Aikido circuit? I'm just a little concerned about this.

You said before that you did not plan to profit from his design, then now you say that you intend to make $10 per board (that's quite a markup in percentage terms). I expect that you will say that $10 is not much profit. But it's still some profit. 20 boards, $10 each is $200 profit.

Perhaps you should consider sending some of that to John. It's his design. Did you see the "Copyright 1999-2008 Glassware" on his home page?

This means that you had no right to copy his design without asking him, regardless of whether you made any profit or not.
 

opc

Member
Paid Member
2004-10-15 10:57 pm
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Hi Beau2317

I'm going to be pretty blunt about this since you seem to think it's such a big issue. If I wanted to make $200, I can think of a million easier ways than this.

I got the extra boards because the price was better, and I knew people would appreciate their availability. When I said $10 it was a rough estimate, and not anywhere close to reality. The truth is Paypal dings me for $3 per transaction, then provide a lousy exchange, then another fee to get the money into my bank account. Shipping is $12.89, not $12.00, plus packing material, the gas to make 10 trips to the post office, the taxes I had to pay at the border when I originally brought the boards into Canada (13% of $497 = $64.61), and the list goes on and on and on.

And it's 16 boards I'm selling, not 20.

I'll be lucky if I even cover the cost of my boards by the time it's over. It would be different if I ran a business where I was pawning off people's designs for profit, but that's really not the case here.

I know intellectual property is a hot topic here, and I know you're trying to look like the good guy, but what you're saying is flat out offensive. John promotes people building his circuits, which is exactly what I did. He even posts them on a public website and encourages people to use them. I never took credit for designing the Aikido section or the Moskido amplifier, I'm not selling a commercial product, I'm not modifying or trying to hide the circuit, I'm simply making a PCB available that simplifies the wiring of a circuit that is otherwise a mess to solder point to point. I'm encouraging people to build a great circuit and give it a listen. Most importantly, I'm not making anything more than the recovery of my own costs on the whole project, if I'm lucky.

I'd appreciate it if you took the time to consider the logistics of an endeavor like this before you run around screaming "copyright infringement" at me.

Owen
 
You find what *I* said to be offensive? Well pardon me.

It doesn't really matter if you make any profit or not. I was just pointing out that you said one thing one place, and then another thing in another place.

I just wonder how hard it would have been to email John first to ask his permission.

John does indeed promote his circuits. And he also promotes the sale of his own boards in case you hadn't noticed. When he was writing about the moskido he commented how his PCBs made building a circuit like the moskido easy.

You have, I think, stepped on his toes. He is the one who has the right to be offended, not you.

The correct and decent response to my message would have been "I take your point, and I will now write and ask JB for his forgiveness and see if he will retrospectively give his permission". To come across like I've offended you is a bit rich. I am just defending my friend John, who has done so very much for the tube-loving community.
 

opc

Member
Paid Member
2004-10-15 10:57 pm
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Moskido Boards

Beau2317,

If your initial post had simply been the first line you wrote, namely asking if I had gotten permission to make the boards, then my reply would have been very much as you suggested.

I have e-mailed John, and I'm awaiting his reply. If he's not happy about the whole thing, I'll gladly stop selling the boards and toss the remainder in the closet. Maybe someday I'll build a Moskido 7.1 system.

The offensive part was the blatant accusation of theft, and the implication that I'm trying to make a buck off someone else's hard work. That really is offensive, and it's a pretty serious accusation to make without know anything about the circumstances.

You should have saved the lecture for after all that facts were established, that's all I'm trying to say.
 
Blatant accusation of theft? If you read the actual words I wrote, I did not accuse you of theft. And it was not a "lecture". And I did not "scream" at you.

I was pointing out that you did not have the right to be doing what you were doing. And I stand by that.

John is a gracious person and I always assumed he would have given you permission if you had asked.

I'll tell you what. I will post a link in the main moskido thread and let the users their decide.
 

opc

Member
Paid Member
2004-10-15 10:57 pm
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Hi beau2317

This is getting a little bit close to flaming, and it's definitely counter productive, so I'm going to drop the whole thing for now. I'll let you know if or when I hear back from John, and in the meantime people seem happy about the opportunity to build this circuit, and that's what all this was about in the first place. A few pairs boards are left, and the first lot shipped out to people tonight.

I've done absolutely nothing wrong here, and I have nothing at all to hide. I've been completely forthcoming about every aspect of what I've done since day one when I posted the suggestion on the Moskido thread.

I won't be discussing this with you anymore until I hear back from John.

Cheers,
Owen
 
javascript:smilie(':whazzat:') Me too!!

OPC

I am (pleased) to say that I am with beau on this one.....
From the outset you have been setting up your stall in his MOSKIDO thread. You then proceed to offer your boards to site members. That you have not received a reply to your mail to JB makes your offer both premature and highly offensive. I for one will be pleased if you will tell us the date on which you mailed JB.

Beau's very placid (in the circumstances, since you used his thread as your advertising pitch) response to your blatant commercialism was in my view totally valid and ethically sound. Yet you escalated the 'mood and tone' to one of agression.

I fell that you should apologise immediately to both JB and Beau.
 

opc

Member
Paid Member
2004-10-15 10:57 pm
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
PCB Update

Hi Guys,

It has been a little while, and there are still a few PCB's left. I have some good news that might be of interest to anyone looking into these:

The three different Moskido circuits are so similar that it turns out you can build all three types on this PCB with great ease. I'm not sure why I didn't think of it before, but both the BUZ900/905 and the driver-less IRF output stage are easy to build using a few jumpers and a few less parts.

Again, if anyone is interested, please let me know and I'll get the info off to you.

I've added the building instructions for the BUZ output stage to the general info PDF, so if you're interested, let me know and I'll send a copy to you.

Cheers,
Owen
 

opc

Member
Paid Member
2004-10-15 10:57 pm
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Parts Cost

Hi Dougie,

That really depends on how overboard you go on "Audiophile" parts. I built my complete pair for about $320 including two toroidal transformers, one for the HV and one for the LV section.

I think you could go as cheap as $200, or as expensive as you'd like, but about $300 is a nice price to aim for.

I used PRP resistors for low power stuff, Mills power resistors in the output section, Solen polypropylene caps, Elna "Audio Grade" electrolytics, and some NOS Russian tubes.

Hope this gives you an idea of what the costs are.

Cheers,
Owen
 
G'day owen,
The boards arrived today, the boy is stuffing them as i type :smash:
They are beautifully made, a great layout and worth every cent.

One can only feel sorry for the sad Barzids like brianco who like to knock a tryer. Go back to the bogs mate and cut some turf.

Thanks for a great design must go to JB, who made this possible.

Our amps will be up and running in a day or so :) I will report back.

Cheers, Peter.
 
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