Re: dynaudio drivers
Initially I wanted to buy MW167 (6.5'' with neodymium magnet) and MDT33 (I think you know this one), but I thought that over $600 in drivers is too big a risk for me.
The idea is that I'm trying to beat my previous DIY speakers with Visaton W170S and G20SC. That shouldn't be too hard as the Visaton woofer is average at best.
All in all I guess I've set my expectations too high.
Morel Israel, not that I think it counts. I have a MDT32S and a MW144.janusz said:
Initially I wanted to buy MW167 (6.5'' with neodymium magnet) and MDT33 (I think you know this one), but I thought that over $600 in drivers is too big a risk for me.
The idea is that I'm trying to beat my previous DIY speakers with Visaton W170S and G20SC. That shouldn't be too hard as the Visaton woofer is average at best.
All in all I guess I've set my expectations too high.
morel
Hi mr_push_pull,
A nice morel kit set is currently being sold in Australia. It is d'Appolito configuration: 4 x bass/mids (I think 6.5" or so) and 2 tweeters. Port fires down. I think the speakers are made in Israel.
Of course you can buy speakers only and do all the rest by yourself. If you wish I can scan the description and email it to you after this weekend. Answer by emailing me.
cheers,
Hi mr_push_pull,
A nice morel kit set is currently being sold in Australia. It is d'Appolito configuration: 4 x bass/mids (I think 6.5" or so) and 2 tweeters. Port fires down. I think the speakers are made in Israel.
Of course you can buy speakers only and do all the rest by yourself. If you wish I can scan the description and email it to you after this weekend. Answer by emailing me.
cheers,
I have to go against the grain here. Speakers are a matter of taste, and my tastes go to Dynaudio. The problem that I see is that you must not forget that Dynaudio components are very detailed, junk in junk out. If a smooth sound is what you are looking for look elsewhere. If a more accurate representation is what you are after it's one of the best, my favorite anyway.
Do this test to see what kind of listener you are. Listen to live non amplified performance and pay attention to what each instrument sounds like. Go listen to Dynaudio and compare to the rest and come back and tell me which speaker sounds more identical to the original sound of the instruments. No speaker can reproduce the sound of an original instrument but many try to get close. Just like tubes vs. SS amps. I am a tube fan but many like SS. One is smooth and the other is harsh for me but that is my taste. I have found that Dynaudio with tube amps is the only way to go. I have tried Dynaudio with cheap SS amps and I suffered, listen with even the cheapest tube amp and now you have a very good system.
Dynaudio is used by many high end speaker manufacturers, in their top of the line systems. Totem got to where they are today because of DYNAUDIO as an example. Wilson used the 21w-54 in the Watts, the list goes on and on. I know of no other company out there that has been used as much as Dynaudio for the very high end systems. Scan Speak is probably the company of choice now, notice that they are now because Dynaudio left the scene. I have also found that it’s not the drivers that are the most important contributor to sound but first is the crossover, second the cabinet and third the drivers. At the end of the day the system is only as good as its weakest link.
Do this test to see what kind of listener you are. Listen to live non amplified performance and pay attention to what each instrument sounds like. Go listen to Dynaudio and compare to the rest and come back and tell me which speaker sounds more identical to the original sound of the instruments. No speaker can reproduce the sound of an original instrument but many try to get close. Just like tubes vs. SS amps. I am a tube fan but many like SS. One is smooth and the other is harsh for me but that is my taste. I have found that Dynaudio with tube amps is the only way to go. I have tried Dynaudio with cheap SS amps and I suffered, listen with even the cheapest tube amp and now you have a very good system.
Dynaudio is used by many high end speaker manufacturers, in their top of the line systems. Totem got to where they are today because of DYNAUDIO as an example. Wilson used the 21w-54 in the Watts, the list goes on and on. I know of no other company out there that has been used as much as Dynaudio for the very high end systems. Scan Speak is probably the company of choice now, notice that they are now because Dynaudio left the scene. I have also found that it’s not the drivers that are the most important contributor to sound but first is the crossover, second the cabinet and third the drivers. At the end of the day the system is only as good as its weakest link.
Yes, it's all subjective. People even exhibit different harmonic distortion within their own ears! Thereore, the tonality from one person to another in the same exact room will obviously be different.
I play guitar, my fiancee plays piano. I've been to MANY concerts; jazz, rock, classical, etc. I've heard many different instruments and played with several types of musicians. All in fun of course, and for the simple love of music, but I know what they (instruments) should sound like.
To me, the Dyns were nice at first, but my opinion of them slowly degenerated. Just to reiterate, they were solid on acoustic information, but imaging was never very good, and the overall soundstage remained diffuse. I could usually find the source of sound rather easily. Please also remember, these were only the Audience 50s, though they were heralded by many reviewers, who probably form their opinion on initial impressions like the rest of us who bought them. I easily overlaoded them with albums such as Natalie Merchant's "Tigerlily", and imaging was never as good as it should be on Holly Cole's "Don't Smoke in Bed".
So, for classical (quartets and quintets because Symphonies could overload them as well) and some light jazz, they get a nod from me. Otherwise,, for music such as rock, fusion, Pop, or anything that requires great imaging and dynamics, I say look elsewhere. They are however, a great speaker choice for the appropriate application. Just not mine. My opinion of them is based on my experience with this particular model, using the associated equipment of an Odyssey Stratos Plus, Audiolab 8000Q, Onix CD88, in a 13x15 room with the speakers along the long wall, 3 ft from the rear, 4ft from the sides, about 6ft between them, and about 7 ft from the listener on 29" as well as 24" stands filled with sand. Whew!
I play guitar, my fiancee plays piano. I've been to MANY concerts; jazz, rock, classical, etc. I've heard many different instruments and played with several types of musicians. All in fun of course, and for the simple love of music, but I know what they (instruments) should sound like.
To me, the Dyns were nice at first, but my opinion of them slowly degenerated. Just to reiterate, they were solid on acoustic information, but imaging was never very good, and the overall soundstage remained diffuse. I could usually find the source of sound rather easily. Please also remember, these were only the Audience 50s, though they were heralded by many reviewers, who probably form their opinion on initial impressions like the rest of us who bought them. I easily overlaoded them with albums such as Natalie Merchant's "Tigerlily", and imaging was never as good as it should be on Holly Cole's "Don't Smoke in Bed".
So, for classical (quartets and quintets because Symphonies could overload them as well) and some light jazz, they get a nod from me. Otherwise,, for music such as rock, fusion, Pop, or anything that requires great imaging and dynamics, I say look elsewhere. They are however, a great speaker choice for the appropriate application. Just not mine. My opinion of them is based on my experience with this particular model, using the associated equipment of an Odyssey Stratos Plus, Audiolab 8000Q, Onix CD88, in a 13x15 room with the speakers along the long wall, 3 ft from the rear, 4ft from the sides, about 6ft between them, and about 7 ft from the listener on 29" as well as 24" stands filled with sand. Whew!
I have also found that it’s not the drivers that are the most important contributor to sound but first is the crossover, second the cabinet and third the drivers
that I'm a 100% backing you on this.
but speakers are in fact different for every ear and different for every electronics you have...
that I'm a 100% backing you on this.
but speakers are in fact different for every ear and different for every electronics you have...
I'm for some years now been listening to a dynaudio nuance (diy speaker comprising of a 17w75lq and d260 so both esotec because esotar was slightly above budget).
I've had numerous discussions about the difficulties in driving dynaudios and their so called lack in the lower regions. Funny thing was that quite a number of fellow diy complimented me on sound when we had a diy-day where my speaker where conneced to my pass aleph5.
So dynaudios may not be the most spectaculair sounding speaker but after hour after hour after hour of listening they never grow tireing with about any kind of music and to my ears they just play the music....
Ralph
I've had numerous discussions about the difficulties in driving dynaudios and their so called lack in the lower regions. Funny thing was that quite a number of fellow diy complimented me on sound when we had a diy-day where my speaker where conneced to my pass aleph5.
So dynaudios may not be the most spectaculair sounding speaker but after hour after hour after hour of listening they never grow tireing with about any kind of music and to my ears they just play the music....
Ralph
Good reply xyrium, I agree with many things you said especially that they are not a good combo with Rock or heavy metal. I mainly listen to jazz, classical and soft rock, I have tried some ACDC with mine and I was not satisfied that much with them. They are not good with that type of music because most of the time the recordings are such crap that the music gets distorted. I listened to an MFSL recording of pink Floyd the Wall and the difference is night and day. As I said before Dynaudios are horrendous if you give them junk.
Years ago I tried the scan-speak clear poly MW and I was very disappointed with them and have kept me away from them since. Seas and Vifa are great components and are the best value for the money out there. Looking at the new Scan-speak drivers now I think I may give them a try since they seem well constructed and I don’t like the aluminum voice coil formers that many use.
Years ago I tried the scan-speak clear poly MW and I was very disappointed with them and have kept me away from them since. Seas and Vifa are great components and are the best value for the money out there. Looking at the new Scan-speak drivers now I think I may give them a try since they seem well constructed and I don’t like the aluminum voice coil formers that many use.
rwagter, It all comes down to, do you like what you have. What others think is not important. No two people hear the same way anyway so keep on listening.
Morel and Dynaudio
My understanding is that Morel is (was) doing sub-contract assembly for Dynaudio. Note how several drivers seem to share similarity. I'm upgrading my 30 year old Audionics TL90 transmission line speakers after blowing a (peerless) tweeter. I have ordered Dynaudio D28-2 tweeters. (should be here in a week or so). I'm considering a midrange change too...(a mid-range crisis at 30 years) Seems the Radford Drivers (actually made by Goodman U.K.) are unavailable anywhere. Thinking of Morel EM 1308 Elite Midrange for this tweak.
My understanding is that Morel is (was) doing sub-contract assembly for Dynaudio. Note how several drivers seem to share similarity. I'm upgrading my 30 year old Audionics TL90 transmission line speakers after blowing a (peerless) tweeter. I have ordered Dynaudio D28-2 tweeters. (should be here in a week or so). I'm considering a midrange change too...(a mid-range crisis at 30 years) Seems the Radford Drivers (actually made by Goodman U.K.) are unavailable anywhere. Thinking of Morel EM 1308 Elite Midrange for this tweak.
newfinish said:
Errr, I would think that the first step is to develop a concept of the speaker such as appearance, targeted SPL, FR, distortion, polar responce. Then perhaps look at the suitable drivers that will work in desired size and type box and only then design the crossover network to blend individual FR and polar response in a coherent loudspeaker.
So, no I'd have to disagree, drivers are the steeping stone in the loudspeaker design process.
Nobody is going to throw together a 4th order L-R 3 way and say: “well we done our job well, let's see if we can find some drivers out there to work with this x-over”.
That's just one of the best indications that the speakers are *******. Once you have heard some decent speakers all of a sudden you realize that it was not the recording that sounded so bad but it was the speakers that could not make any decent reproduction of it. Please don't always blame it on the recording that's the worst kind of excuse for a bad sounding speaker there is, most speaker just bluurrrr the hell out of it just because they can't handle complex imformation but I say it again most of the times that's not the fault of the recording. And why on earth would you like to live with a speaker that makes more than half of your record collection sound bad, then you are really missing a lot of enjoyment a decent hifi system can give you.
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