Monitor system with Vifa ringradiator

[Merijn]

Hi all,

I have been thinking of using these speaker units for a WAF friendly monitor-sized loudspeakers. The cabinets will be something like Sonus Faber.

Vifa XT25TG30-04

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

http://www.d-s-t.com/vifa/data/xt25tg30-04a.htm

Vifa XT18WH09-08 or XT18WO09-08

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

http://www.d-s-t.com/vifa/data/xt18wh09-08a.htm

Does anybody know these units? Since I am farely new to designing filters, what do you propose to start with?

 

[LaMa]

The XT bass woofer is a quite new development, newtronics of germany is the only firm, which uses this driver with the XT ringradiator. (atleast which I know of)

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

I thought they are also delivering kits (not on the site) according to K&T. (germand diy magazine). Maybe our fellow german members can comment on that.

 

[indoubt]

I don't know the Vifa XT18WH09-08 or XT18WO09-08 but I do know the ringradiator

minimonitor

Good tweeter, very good at soundstaging and placement of instruments. Sound is less sweet than seas KT27F or alike.

There is a large post for this one on hifi.nl and it got very nice reviews in an hearing session for mini monitors amongst DIY builders.

They were actually build just for fun as I entered a DIY speakerbuilding contest. Got a little out of hand though as I originally planned to build pc speakers. In an older topic on GoT(gathering of tweakers) there is an DIY wedstrijd topic where you can see construction photographs

 

[PHilgeman]

I can assure you that driver sounds very very nice. Outstanding detail and clarity. I like it as much if not more than the Seas Mag cones. Also very easy to cross over.

-Paul

 

[Lusso5]

Polk Audio uses the ring in it's LSi7 ($700), and promotes it's use of it as one of the marketing tools for speaker.

Indoubt - what woofer are you using there with your minimonitor?

 

[indoubt]

A Peerless HDS 134 which looks astonishing alike the polk, except for the dustcap and the color

Ready

Because of the small volume (5 L net) I 've combined them with a small 8" active sub




edit: correct url

 

[Mos Fetish]

Gee, those Newtronics are classy looking speakers.

Is that an aperiodic vent I see?

Mos

 

[Variac]

Hey In Doubt,
Are you going to share your crossover with us?
Mark

 

[phase_accurate]

Is that an aperiodic vent I see?

A TML of constant cross-section.

Regards

Charles

 

[indoubt]

Variac, Here it is:



Series filter design and measurements are developed with the help of Geenius.

Replace the 3.3 ohm resostor wit a 2.2 ohm one (last tweak) and you're in business.

please note; it's a series filter, so if you place the filters outside of te box you'll have to bi-wire from the filter to the box. If you place the filter inside the box you cannot bi-wire

happy listening

edit: server down, will add schematic later

 

[Dave Jones]

Polk Audio uses the ring in it's LSi7 ($700), and promotes it's use of it as one of the marketing tools for speaker.

Indoubt - what woofer are you using there with your minimonitor?

Hah! They re-branded it Polk Dynamic Balance. I've got some Polk RT200p's at home with entirely different "Dynamic Balance" tweeters. Want to buy them? Cheap.

 

[Therac]

I know that Dezzz used the Vifa XT18WH in his project and he thinks it's a really good driver.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23126


-Therac

 

[indoubt]

I couldn't edit the post anymore (too much time elapsed I guess)

So here is the filter (see earlier post also)

NOTE: THE TWEETER IS CONNECTED IN REVERSED PHASE!!!

Only for DIY use, this design is not to be used commercialy without approval.

 

[Merijn]

Looks like it could be a winning tweeter...

Indoubt: You are one of the persons who started me on this 🙂
(With the HAT of mr. Tony Gee )

But I would realy like to design something by myself. Even the ribbon tweeter (fountek JP-3) was considered before I saw selahaudio with what I thougt would be very nice home made design

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

http://www.d-s-t.com.au/Ventura/RibbonTweeter.htm

It's the same thing with the wheel, I guess

 

[Sjef]

I have heard the vifa ring radiator as well as the Scan Speak. Was not impressed by both of them and personally I think they are highly over priced. Ring radiators just seem to be the newest trend in loudspeakeker manufacturing. Compare them with a decent ribbon like the ESg, Raven or something likely and you will be amazed how much more detail, sweetness, airiness, micro dynamics etc etc you will get. Just my personal opinion.

 

[Variac]

That ribbon looks identical to the Aurum Cantus 2si that sells in the US for $100 USD each I couldn't find a price on the site you referenced. One difference is that the AC has a metal faceplate they say. I don't think it matters but it shows that there might be minor variations by brand. Probably sounds the same-very good!!

Everything I've heard about the ring radiator tweeter is that you need a pretty extreme crossover to cut it off because it doesn't tend to roll off by itself, and then exceeds the excursion that it is comfortable with and gets harsh. I guess third order minimum. I don't understand series crossovers so I don't know extreme the schematic we just got is.

There is no reason that a parallel crossover wouldn't work also AFAIK

 

[jewilson]

I have been considering using the Vifa or even the Scan Speak ring raidiator also. All the articles on speakers using them seem very positive. Also Sonus has received high praise in there new designs using these tweeters.

Also far as ribbons go, I owned a pair for full range Appogee Sintila speakers. They were good but just did have the guts to rock, so I'd be hard pressed to return to a ribibon tweeter.

 

[indoubt]

Series crossovers are a little more difficult to design but, in general, do a better job in integrating the tweeter with the woofer.

I designed a parallel crossover first which sounded nice but had a little dip around 4-5 k. I could not get rid of it and switched to serial crossover which improved both sound and flatness of the response.

It remains a difficult tweeter to filter. There are some strange anomalies in the phase as well which were difficult to get rid off.

To m.h.o. this is a very good tweeter for the money. It has a very wide soundstage (interesting to listen to Miles Davis, close your eyes and place the instruments) and the sound is good too.
Apart from that I do not understand the rave reviews and if I would pay Sonus Faber money I would like something better for my €€€€€€€'s.

Personally I prefer the Seas KT27F on sound which is 2/3 of the price. The soundstage is smaller but to my ears they sound nicer. If money is no issue I'd prefer the seas excell millennium (there are others too yes)

Ribbons can be good but they are ussualy pricy and cannot beat the millennium, at least with my ears.

 

[jewilson]

What seem to be appealing to me was is that it's a fast non metal tweeter. I have been using Scan Speak for sometime and find their stuff quite good.

As for the extra bandwidth of this tweeter, it is very interesting. I would want to listen to it before rolling it off, maybe it is not necessary. Well here’s a driver that could really make the neighbor hood dogs howl .

 

[indoubt]

Couldn't tell, my cat died before the speakers were finished and my ears don't hear upto 50K. (stops at 18,5K actually)

Everytime I would play music with high frequencies (other speakers) she would get out and find relief in grabbing either a dog or the mailman.😀

note: the cat died of age (17 years)