Maty: Given your consistent trolling on lack of mod-86 reviews as you want them as this has taken up a big chunk of your posts on the forum this year, and the fact that you appear to be basing your buying choice on how many idiotic questions the designer will answer from you might I recommend you just build something and be happy.
No, when I am rude I switch to anglo-saxon.
It cannot be answered without having your speakers, your listening room and your ears, so any subjective review is limited in its value to you UNLESS you have made a decision and want it ratified by someone you have never met and probably never will meet.
Even when someone posts their opinion you say 'wrong music' so you can understand why I view you as little more than a troll.
It cannot be answered without having your speakers, your listening room and your ears, so any subjective review is limited in its value to you UNLESS you have made a decision and want it ratified by someone you have never met and probably never will meet.
Even when someone posts their opinion you say 'wrong music' so you can understand why I view you as little more than a troll.
Thanks, helpful. The amp will be taking care of the treble band and from your description I think the modulus would be well suited to that.
I think maty is looking for information that will help validate his choice. Unfortunately, he is not asking the right questions.
If looking at testimonials is the driving factor, you have to realize this:
The testimonials are made by people that do not test their gear. They build it and then listen to it. They hear their unconscious bias more than the gear under test. In short, these sort of testimonials are useless. They speak only the the person's reaction to his build.
I have built a MOD-86. I have heard it on two different systems, without any blind testing or level matching protocols in place. My subjective results are useless to you. Here is why: during one listening session ( I will *not* call it a test ) three people heard three different things. One person heard exactly the opposite of what I heard re tonal balance.
As for the MOD-86, if you *still* want my subjective opinion, here it is: It sounds like nothing. It has no sonic signature. It reveals the sound of what is upstream from it better than any amp I have ever heard.
Given you are looking for it to sound a particular way, I believe you will hate it when it just does what an amp should -- amplifies the signal without distorting it.
If looking at testimonials is the driving factor, you have to realize this:
The testimonials are made by people that do not test their gear. They build it and then listen to it. They hear their unconscious bias more than the gear under test. In short, these sort of testimonials are useless. They speak only the the person's reaction to his build.
I have built a MOD-86. I have heard it on two different systems, without any blind testing or level matching protocols in place. My subjective results are useless to you. Here is why: during one listening session ( I will *not* call it a test ) three people heard three different things. One person heard exactly the opposite of what I heard re tonal balance.
As for the MOD-86, if you *still* want my subjective opinion, here it is: It sounds like nothing. It has no sonic signature. It reveals the sound of what is upstream from it better than any amp I have ever heard.
Given you are looking for it to sound a particular way, I believe you will hate it when it just does what an amp should -- amplifies the signal without distorting it.
Music is music, if you have a good amp it's works with every kind of music..
In the 70's many poeple said that classical music (the great !) works only with tube amp, solid state was for pop and rock (the poor)..
Now in 2015, things have changed
I suppose you listen to classical music, but you tell me, no no I hear something else!!
Phil.
maty,
You have to know, how much power do you need, and at what nominal speaker impedance?
These are the 4 things you need to look at when fitting an amplifier to your system:
Speaker Efficiency
Room size
Listening volume
Speaker load ( nominal, minimum etc )
Notice that the type of music never enters in to the situation.
You have to know, how much power do you need, and at what nominal speaker impedance?
These are the 4 things you need to look at when fitting an amplifier to your system:
Speaker Efficiency
Room size
Listening volume
Speaker load ( nominal, minimum etc )
Notice that the type of music never enters in to the situation.
From a technical standpoint of view, both design share the same concept of a Composite Opamp configuration.
Tomchr's design is a very refined version as documented in his threads.
The idea the the composite design is to make the mediocre specs of the LM3886 even better by introducing a much higher quality opamp to the input of the LM3886 and including it into its feedback loop to to obtain the overall performance of the circuit as whole equivalent to that of the input stage opamp.
Two other nice features that Tom's design employ is the use of true Balanced input for those who have such equipment that utilize it like some of the high end audio gear, preamps, DAC's , Mixers and such.
The second is the addition of DC servo amplifier opamp section to maintain and create a very low DC offset output voltage and perfect symmetry of the output waveform.
This also allows for a very easy connections to be able to create a Bridged or Parallel or both Bridge/Parallel Amplifier (BPA) configurations without any modifications to the amplifier modules for whatever ones Impedance rating and power level requirements may be, just by adding more units.
Subjectively I am sure that either amp sounds great.
Although I have not made a LM3886 yet I have heard them in the past in some commercial gear and never really heard any anomalies that made me dislike the chipamp to begin with.
I personally have been working on a design of my own for my ESL's in the form of a PA400/800 and BPA800 types following Tomchr's and other's Guide Lines I have studied through the years in these threads on Composite Opamp and DCservo design techniques.
The only reason I have decide to use such a large massively paralleled stage is because of the low impedance that ESL's pose on an amplifier.
Not because of high power demands.
Typically a 20v-30v Peak is way more than enough for my ESL designs.
One of my favorite designs I have seen a while back is the Mini My_ref that is a smaller bridged LM1886 that uses a LME49720/740 on the front end.
With the utilization of the LME49740/720 opamp you know it has got to sound very good considering that it is also of a composite design and no fancy caps are needed!
I had thought about right from the beginning to build that one with the LM3886's instead or even a pair of LM4780's or even in a BPA configuration as well.
FWIW, Cheers!!
jer
Tomchr's design is a very refined version as documented in his threads.
The idea the the composite design is to make the mediocre specs of the LM3886 even better by introducing a much higher quality opamp to the input of the LM3886 and including it into its feedback loop to to obtain the overall performance of the circuit as whole equivalent to that of the input stage opamp.
Two other nice features that Tom's design employ is the use of true Balanced input for those who have such equipment that utilize it like some of the high end audio gear, preamps, DAC's , Mixers and such.
The second is the addition of DC servo amplifier opamp section to maintain and create a very low DC offset output voltage and perfect symmetry of the output waveform.
This also allows for a very easy connections to be able to create a Bridged or Parallel or both Bridge/Parallel Amplifier (BPA) configurations without any modifications to the amplifier modules for whatever ones Impedance rating and power level requirements may be, just by adding more units.
Subjectively I am sure that either amp sounds great.
Although I have not made a LM3886 yet I have heard them in the past in some commercial gear and never really heard any anomalies that made me dislike the chipamp to begin with.
I personally have been working on a design of my own for my ESL's in the form of a PA400/800 and BPA800 types following Tomchr's and other's Guide Lines I have studied through the years in these threads on Composite Opamp and DCservo design techniques.
The only reason I have decide to use such a large massively paralleled stage is because of the low impedance that ESL's pose on an amplifier.
Not because of high power demands.
Typically a 20v-30v Peak is way more than enough for my ESL designs.
One of my favorite designs I have seen a while back is the Mini My_ref that is a smaller bridged LM1886 that uses a LME49720/740 on the front end.
With the utilization of the LME49740/720 opamp you know it has got to sound very good considering that it is also of a composite design and no fancy caps are needed!
I had thought about right from the beginning to build that one with the LM3886's instead or even a pair of LM4780's or even in a BPA configuration as well.
FWIW, Cheers!!
jer
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@BigE: I have all studied about specifications I need but I can not divine how sound the orchestral masses.
My speakers: KEF Q100 -with bass-reflex closed. I love the coaxial KEF 5.25"
Graphs and specs:
-> http://medleysmusings.com/kef-q100-drive-unit-testing/
-> KEF Q100:Laborbericht KEF Q 100 Seite 5-i-fidelity.net
-> ???????? ???????????? ???????. ????????? | SalonAV
I need 50W at 8 ohms like Akitika GT-101 or Parallel 86.
My speakers: KEF Q100 -with bass-reflex closed. I love the coaxial KEF 5.25"
Graphs and specs:
-> http://medleysmusings.com/kef-q100-drive-unit-testing/
-> KEF Q100:Laborbericht KEF Q 100 Seite 5-i-fidelity.net
-> ???????? ???????????? ???????. ????????? | SalonAV
I need 50W at 8 ohms like Akitika GT-101 or Parallel 86.
86 dB speakers.... what is your listening volume? How far away do you sit? do you use a subwoofer?
Max SPL is 107 dB. Just enough for 20 dB peaks at 1 watt.... but, a 20 dB peak needs 100 watts of power.
So, with 50 watts, you will be listening to 0.5 watts continuous at most. 0.1 watt will give you 76 dB at 1 watt, 1 meter from 1 speaker.
If you listen to a max of 76 dB continuous, then 10 watts ought to do, provided you sit close enough.
I don't understand why to continue to think that orchestral music is different? If you have had problems in the past, I would suggest your amps were under powered.
Max SPL is 107 dB. Just enough for 20 dB peaks at 1 watt.... but, a 20 dB peak needs 100 watts of power.
So, with 50 watts, you will be listening to 0.5 watts continuous at most. 0.1 watt will give you 76 dB at 1 watt, 1 meter from 1 speaker.
If you listen to a max of 76 dB continuous, then 10 watts ought to do, provided you sit close enough.
I don't understand why to continue to think that orchestral music is different? If you have had problems in the past, I would suggest your amps were under powered.
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Maty--you're asking questions absolutely no datasheet will give you, and you're hoping to make some kind of emotional connection with reviewers in order to justify your purchase one way or another. Seeing as we humans are predominately emotional/relational creatures with some logic bootstrapped on, that is entirely understandable! Unfortunately, neither reviews nor specs will be able to *truly* help you satisfy your curiosities, as what context I bring to the table in a review is wildly different from the context you bring to the table. I definitely don't read you as trolling as much as trying to convince yourself to buy one or the other based on your objectives (which may or may not be valid concerns). This coupled with some very understandable differences in how we communicate (seems a bit is lost in translation, not that your English isn't excellent!).
If all these different amps were given to you for long term tests, you may well choose one for reasons entirely unrelated to their actual performance (their case/the circuit details/etc). A well-done single blind test with your favorite music may reveals that you cannot resolve a difference (in which case, pick the one that strikes your fancy), the one you already prefer (that makes life easy!), or one that you otherwise had neglected (leaving you in conflict with yourself).
By the sounds of it, buying/building all 3 and doing your own testing is not a plausible solution. At some point, you're going to have to simply going to have to jump, pick one and move on. My recommendation remains the same for you as for the OP: figure out which kit is going to be the easiest to put together/debug/etc. and just move on.
If all these different amps were given to you for long term tests, you may well choose one for reasons entirely unrelated to their actual performance (their case/the circuit details/etc). A well-done single blind test with your favorite music may reveals that you cannot resolve a difference (in which case, pick the one that strikes your fancy), the one you already prefer (that makes life easy!), or one that you otherwise had neglected (leaving you in conflict with yourself).
By the sounds of it, buying/building all 3 and doing your own testing is not a plausible solution. At some point, you're going to have to simply going to have to jump, pick one and move on. My recommendation remains the same for you as for the OP: figure out which kit is going to be the easiest to put together/debug/etc. and just move on.