I don't know as I can say that I've been all that successful in moderating this evening (I rather feel like one of the graphite rods used to moderate nuclear reactors...after a near-meltdown), but thanks for the thanks.
As a related question, I'm going to put this up to a vote, or at least open the issue for discussion. At the moment the little tag line under my name still says Elder (although some seem to feel that it should say Grandfather). Now, a Certain Member seems not to have known that I was a Moderator (and, frankly, I don't think it would have mattered a toot to him either way). My feeling has always been that I'd rather be "one of the guys" so as to be able to drop in on threads without this heavy "Moderator" aura following me around. Here's my question:
Should I (or any other Moderators we might ever have) be labelled as such, or can I go on being Just Me?
Note that Jason is the Uber-Moderator, in possession of all passwords, permissions, and the keys to the kingdom. It's his site, and he's the one at whose feet the corpses will fall if there's a shootout in the street and the sheriff doesn't get there in time to stop it.
Me? I'm just the fella who diddles with Nelson's schematics whilst he's not looking...
Grey
As a related question, I'm going to put this up to a vote, or at least open the issue for discussion. At the moment the little tag line under my name still says Elder (although some seem to feel that it should say Grandfather). Now, a Certain Member seems not to have known that I was a Moderator (and, frankly, I don't think it would have mattered a toot to him either way). My feeling has always been that I'd rather be "one of the guys" so as to be able to drop in on threads without this heavy "Moderator" aura following me around. Here's my question:
Should I (or any other Moderators we might ever have) be labelled as such, or can I go on being Just Me?
Note that Jason is the Uber-Moderator, in possession of all passwords, permissions, and the keys to the kingdom. It's his site, and he's the one at whose feet the corpses will fall if there's a shootout in the street and the sheriff doesn't get there in time to stop it.
Me? I'm just the fella who diddles with Nelson's schematics whilst he's not looking...
Grey
Thank you for your kind words. I agree with Grey that I do not feel that I have done a very good job to date. But, we learn from our mistakes.
Grey: On the <a href="http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/">main forum page</a> there is a space for moderators for each forum on the right hand side. I can understand you wanting to waive the Moderator title. The word 'Moderator' could be added next to the existing title...
You guys have set a standard for these forums which makes them different from the rest. I keep hearing over and over that nowhere else is there such courtesy and maturity in an audio forum. Such a nurturous place for newcomers to get their feet.
I think that maintaining that is our goal, and that is what I will strive for. There is bound to be the odd incident as we experience growing pains. Lets put our fires out before they get out of hand. If you see something that isn't right, send a private email to the person explaining what they did wrong, and more importantly, what they could do next time to avoid being misunderstood.
Some people haven't learnt how to show courtesy and maturity over the keyboard, it's an acquired skill. All we can do is our best to help them learn and understand.
Others again just don't care, we don't need them here, and I am happy to intervene.
Nobody wants big brother looking over their shoulders. We have a rare opportunity here to collectively police ourselves as a community. A Neighbourhood watch of sorts.
So go ahead and bite your ego, if it hurts you know you are growing.
<i>"One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the Art of Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place to train. "</i>- Morihei Ueshiba
Jason.
PS I am prone to editing my posts several times after initial posting
Grey: On the <a href="http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/">main forum page</a> there is a space for moderators for each forum on the right hand side. I can understand you wanting to waive the Moderator title. The word 'Moderator' could be added next to the existing title...
You guys have set a standard for these forums which makes them different from the rest. I keep hearing over and over that nowhere else is there such courtesy and maturity in an audio forum. Such a nurturous place for newcomers to get their feet.
I think that maintaining that is our goal, and that is what I will strive for. There is bound to be the odd incident as we experience growing pains. Lets put our fires out before they get out of hand. If you see something that isn't right, send a private email to the person explaining what they did wrong, and more importantly, what they could do next time to avoid being misunderstood.
Some people haven't learnt how to show courtesy and maturity over the keyboard, it's an acquired skill. All we can do is our best to help them learn and understand.
Others again just don't care, we don't need them here, and I am happy to intervene.
Nobody wants big brother looking over their shoulders. We have a rare opportunity here to collectively police ourselves as a community. A Neighbourhood watch of sorts.
So go ahead and bite your ego, if it hurts you know you are growing.
<i>"One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the Art of Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place to train. "</i>- Morihei Ueshiba
Jason.
PS I am prone to editing my posts several times after initial posting
Grey really is one of the founding fathers of this board ... elder is really not an adequate expression of this... Grandfather wouldn't be 2 bad if grey didnt mind... of course i am 1/2 way to reaching 1000 posts which @ this rate will probably happen about May 2002 but i do not feel that i should have my status altered @ that stage as the difference between my knowledge and Grey's is immense .... i will also probably exceed Grey's number of posts by August or so but i dont believe that this should in anyway put me above Grey.... I believe Grey has given to this board more than anyone else probably ever will and no number of posts can change this.
Titles are primarily to get people posting a lot, and once they have got there, to feel that they are recognised for their commitment to the community.
I think that post counts also have a place, but can get a bit old after a while and can make newcomers feel a little intimidated.
In light of this and in the spirit of trying to keep this thing fun, I have removed post counts, and added a new 'enlightenment' status level. Anyone who achieves 200 posts or has been a registered member of the forums for more than a year can now choose their own title to express themselves however they want. There are a bunch of you just about to topple 200, so there's some incentive
I think that post counts also have a place, but can get a bit old after a while and can make newcomers feel a little intimidated.
In light of this and in the spirit of trying to keep this thing fun, I have removed post counts, and added a new 'enlightenment' status level. Anyone who achieves 200 posts or has been a registered member of the forums for more than a year can now choose their own title to express themselves however they want. There are a bunch of you just about to topple 200, so there's some incentive
I'd like to add my thanks to those who have volunteered to make this resource possible, certainly Jason and Grey, but also all the members who take the trouble to add value and be helpful, and most especially, those who make a living in audio.
Grey, I wonder what you'd think of the approach of first contacting folks privately when their behavior here gets out of line. Public beratings can sometimes blow the issue out of proportion by seeming to carry the weight of judgement, rather than counsel. I'm not in your shoes and don't presume to know fully what you are dealing with -- just thinking about how I'd prefer to be told that my zipper's open.
Grey, I wonder what you'd think of the approach of first contacting folks privately when their behavior here gets out of line. Public beratings can sometimes blow the issue out of proportion by seeming to carry the weight of judgement, rather than counsel. I'm not in your shoes and don't presume to know fully what you are dealing with -- just thinking about how I'd prefer to be told that my zipper's open.
Greetings
Grey
Jason
You guys think you haven't done a very good job. right ??.
Tell us one other forum which has the calibre of elders we have here. Nowhere is the correct answer. This place has attracted a special group of elders. I think the term is a good one. Elders people who have a gift for imparting knowledge in an unselfish manner. people who try to keep things rolling without being difficult. Contrast this place with some other forums where there are no elders. Few rules little discipline and not a nice place to be. People, ordinary guys learn nothing of value at those places. They leave. Some come here I would say. Its a different atmosphere here you elder guys. You have to take in the plain facts that you guys are one of the reasons this place is so popular.
Keep the term elder. It means something. Just consider a newbie coming on here scared witless probably asks a newbie question and gets some good advice from a range of people. Some also relatively new, some seasoned hands and maybe a word of advice from guess who, an elder. How do you think that young guy feels. An unwanted person, someone who gets troden on right from the start or a person who feels welcome. Wants to come back.
Actually there is another thing. It's the humour. Take a look at this
haldor
DIYaudio Prophet
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Upstate South Carolina
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by grataku
I wonder why it is always someone else to get abducted by aliens, to see Jesus Christ, and to hear the sound of the direction in which amorphous bulk polymer is being wrapped around a conductor. Never me! Why?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We can arrange that if you would like.
Phil
I cracked up on that one.
You don't get that on other forums. You get insults arguments bad languages cavalier attitudes but very little humour. There is humour here. You only get humour when the place is running right.
You elder guys are doing a darn good job and it sets the whole tone.
You too Jason. You will have to be an elder elder.
Grey
Jason
You guys think you haven't done a very good job. right ??.
Tell us one other forum which has the calibre of elders we have here. Nowhere is the correct answer. This place has attracted a special group of elders. I think the term is a good one. Elders people who have a gift for imparting knowledge in an unselfish manner. people who try to keep things rolling without being difficult. Contrast this place with some other forums where there are no elders. Few rules little discipline and not a nice place to be. People, ordinary guys learn nothing of value at those places. They leave. Some come here I would say. Its a different atmosphere here you elder guys. You have to take in the plain facts that you guys are one of the reasons this place is so popular.
Keep the term elder. It means something. Just consider a newbie coming on here scared witless probably asks a newbie question and gets some good advice from a range of people. Some also relatively new, some seasoned hands and maybe a word of advice from guess who, an elder. How do you think that young guy feels. An unwanted person, someone who gets troden on right from the start or a person who feels welcome. Wants to come back.
Actually there is another thing. It's the humour. Take a look at this
haldor
DIYaudio Prophet
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Upstate South Carolina
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by grataku
I wonder why it is always someone else to get abducted by aliens, to see Jesus Christ, and to hear the sound of the direction in which amorphous bulk polymer is being wrapped around a conductor. Never me! Why?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We can arrange that if you would like.
Phil
I cracked up on that one.
You don't get that on other forums. You get insults arguments bad languages cavalier attitudes but very little humour. There is humour here. You only get humour when the place is running right.
You elder guys are doing a darn good job and it sets the whole tone.
You too Jason. You will have to be an elder elder.
Jason the Uber-Elder?
Nah, I like Uber-Moderator better.
The show of support is gratifying. I must say that it helps dissipate the sour taste left in my mouth after recent events.
Kudos to Jason, incidentally, don't believe that I got that said earlier.
Remp's point about the term Elder being reassuring to new critters is a good one. It tends to lessen the odds that you're going to end up with the blind leading the blind. But it's not a guarantee, unfortunately. Someone can get on, chat up a storm, and become an Elder without really knowing anything more than resistor color codes, if that much. The sad thing is that there's no way to test knowledge for the pecularities inherent in audio. I know that there are a number of questions that I'd flunk on such a test:
How much capacitance does this circuit need?
A) 1000uF B) 10000uF C) 100000uF
My response:
How much can you afford? Oh, and by the way, can we discuss film caps vs. electrolytics while we're at it?
Their response:
Somebody show this clown the door!
I don't have an answer for this problem. Just wanted to note it in passing.
Grey
Nah, I like Uber-Moderator better.
The show of support is gratifying. I must say that it helps dissipate the sour taste left in my mouth after recent events.
Kudos to Jason, incidentally, don't believe that I got that said earlier.
Remp's point about the term Elder being reassuring to new critters is a good one. It tends to lessen the odds that you're going to end up with the blind leading the blind. But it's not a guarantee, unfortunately. Someone can get on, chat up a storm, and become an Elder without really knowing anything more than resistor color codes, if that much. The sad thing is that there's no way to test knowledge for the pecularities inherent in audio. I know that there are a number of questions that I'd flunk on such a test:
How much capacitance does this circuit need?
A) 1000uF B) 10000uF C) 100000uF
My response:
How much can you afford? Oh, and by the way, can we discuss film caps vs. electrolytics while we're at it?
Their response:
Somebody show this clown the door!
I don't have an answer for this problem. Just wanted to note it in passing.
Grey
Jason, Grey,
I cannot help fully agreeing with what Richard is writing (one tiny exception see mentioned below). And I want to add that, being a newbie on this forum (in lurking mode for some weeks) , I found here an athmosphere of mutual respect among the members and particularly between the Elders and the not-yet-so knowledgeable guys. I find that great.
I think it is this mutual respect missing on other forums. And I could name a great big one where some of the moderators are to be called in the same sentence as the worst flamers. Atleast as opinionatedness and lack of honesty is concerned. I am not guessing, I have the proof in my inbox.
A German proverb hitting the target exactly: a fish stinks always from the head.
You are the heads fo this forum and this forum does not stink at all.
So , Jason and Grey, you are doing a marvelous job.
Richard, I cannot fully agree here. I have observed humour on other forums and I was sometimes ROTFLMAO.
But I agree the humor can turn vitriolic very fast in atmospheres without mutual respect as a common denominator.
On the Joenet I had some puns with my buddy Jeremy Epstein who made some nasty remarks about me and Bavarians in general and I menaced him to be put on a pole over an open fire by Bavarians and turned like an oxen and bastered with bavarian beer all the time and I am sitting in a little hut besides selling tickets ...
and his remark: "only if I get shares on the ticket sales" . This was fun and anyone knew it. Because between Jeremy and me the is mutual respect and this could be sensed (and the menace was so insanely exaggerated). But I observed awful flames on the Joenet and also being a web newbie then, was entangled in one before I realized it.
There is another forum I had a lot of fun for a while. Then the already rude manners turned more rude and disgustingly so. I spoke up against it (as there is few to nothing moderation and no rules) and had a nice success joining several members my complaints about the manners getting out of control. I thought it was a success, I thought. 2 days later one awful piece of flame started out of a well-meant hint. Without acceleration phase, 100% speed at once. And yet there was a lot of humour up to my last day there (I decided to disappear silently.)
I disgress, on this forum I like the humour AND the mutual respect.
I cannot help fully agreeing with what Richard is writing (one tiny exception see mentioned below). And I want to add that, being a newbie on this forum (in lurking mode for some weeks) , I found here an athmosphere of mutual respect among the members and particularly between the Elders and the not-yet-so knowledgeable guys. I find that great.
I think it is this mutual respect missing on other forums. And I could name a great big one where some of the moderators are to be called in the same sentence as the worst flamers. Atleast as opinionatedness and lack of honesty is concerned. I am not guessing, I have the proof in my inbox.
A German proverb hitting the target exactly: a fish stinks always from the head.
You are the heads fo this forum and this forum does not stink at all.
So , Jason and Grey, you are doing a marvelous job.
Richard, I cannot fully agree here. I have observed humour on other forums and I was sometimes ROTFLMAO.
But I agree the humor can turn vitriolic very fast in atmospheres without mutual respect as a common denominator.
On the Joenet I had some puns with my buddy Jeremy Epstein who made some nasty remarks about me and Bavarians in general and I menaced him to be put on a pole over an open fire by Bavarians and turned like an oxen and bastered with bavarian beer all the time and I am sitting in a little hut besides selling tickets ...
and his remark: "only if I get shares on the ticket sales" . This was fun and anyone knew it. Because between Jeremy and me the is mutual respect and this could be sensed (and the menace was so insanely exaggerated). But I observed awful flames on the Joenet and also being a web newbie then, was entangled in one before I realized it.
There is another forum I had a lot of fun for a while. Then the already rude manners turned more rude and disgustingly so. I spoke up against it (as there is few to nothing moderation and no rules) and had a nice success joining several members my complaints about the manners getting out of control. I thought it was a success, I thought. 2 days later one awful piece of flame started out of a well-meant hint. Without acceleration phase, 100% speed at once. And yet there was a lot of humour up to my last day there (I decided to disappear silently.)
I disgress, on this forum I like the humour AND the mutual respect.
Joe brought up a point earlier that I didn't cover. He mentioned the idea of contacting someone privately if something is amiss. There are plusses and minuses to this. One thing that I'd like to do is keep as much of my traffic out in the open as possible when dealing with a problem. That way there are 'witnesses' if things go awry. Another benefit is that others may also learn from the exchange. On the other hand, there is the face-saving aspect for the miscreant if it's all behind the scenes. It's hard to know what will and will not work in a particular instance.
I think that there were a sufficient number of instances in this recent dust-up where the member involved was publicly thumbing his nose at those (several members, not just me) who were suggesting that he tone it down. Though the posts are gone now, I think enough people remember them that I could make a case that some people are simply determined that they are going to act the way they want, period. What anyone else might think is of no consequence to them, whatsoever.
Other times and circumstances might warrant a different approach, however. I'd rather leave all options open, depending on how the situation is progressing.
Grey
I think that there were a sufficient number of instances in this recent dust-up where the member involved was publicly thumbing his nose at those (several members, not just me) who were suggesting that he tone it down. Though the posts are gone now, I think enough people remember them that I could make a case that some people are simply determined that they are going to act the way they want, period. What anyone else might think is of no consequence to them, whatsoever.
Other times and circumstances might warrant a different approach, however. I'd rather leave all options open, depending on how the situation is progressing.
Grey
Remember "Starship Troopers" by R.A.Heinlein?
Hello Grey,
I vote for that!
Why save the miscreants face? He could have behaved well. See subject line, remember that book? For those not acquainted with the book, it is a SF novel describing a fictional human society in the future and besides that, it is all about moral philosophy. I think tha passage on th public floggings quite fits to the situation of people misbehaving and not getting away with it cold.
So public mentioning misbehaviour and calling the knight and the horse by the name publicly could serve well to the very effects the public flogging does in the novel.
Just wanted to throw in some stuff for thinking
Hello Grey,
I vote for that!
Why save the miscreants face? He could have behaved well. See subject line, remember that book? For those not acquainted with the book, it is a SF novel describing a fictional human society in the future and besides that, it is all about moral philosophy. I think tha passage on th public floggings quite fits to the situation of people misbehaving and not getting away with it cold.
So public mentioning misbehaviour and calling the knight and the horse by the name publicly could serve well to the very effects the public flogging does in the novel.
Just wanted to throw in some stuff for thinking
Hmm, public flogging. It would work well if it wasn't verbal flogging I am sure. Even more so if it wasn't a virtually anonymous person being Asciiaclly flogging!
Ok, backflip on the editable status thing. I like remp's comments. Elders it is, then.
FWIW new users now get a list of guidelines emailed, they need to verify their email address (by replying to an email), and new threads require the checking box asking if you have searched for the answer first. The other todo items will come shortly (search on front page, guidelines in faq, search reduced to 2 chars (don't know if I can do this without killing my overloaded server)).
Ok, backflip on the editable status thing. I like remp's comments. Elders it is, then.
FWIW new users now get a list of guidelines emailed, they need to verify their email address (by replying to an email), and new threads require the checking box asking if you have searched for the answer first. The other todo items will come shortly (search on front page, guidelines in faq, search reduced to 2 chars (don't know if I can do this without killing my overloaded server)).
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