If you can afford $350 / speaker including cabinet for slightly better drivers... read the reviews
HTM-12 Complete 12" Deltalite woofer + SEOS15 kit plus CNC cut flat pack cabinet
Denovo Audio HTM-12
Price Break Down:
1 - Eminence 12" Deltalite woofer: $124.99
1 - Denovo DNA-325: $69.20
1 - Denovo SEOS-15 waveguide: $35
1 - Set of crossover parts: $55.92
2 - Ports: $7.80
1 - 1" thick CNC cut front baffle: $18
1 - Set of screws and gaskets: $1.50
Packaging Material: $5.00
Paypal Fee: $8.94
Retail Cost: $326.35
Discount Cost: $309.12 with free shipping
HTM-12 CNC cut Flat Pack Full Cabinet $40
HTM-12 Complete 12" Deltalite woofer + SEOS15 kit plus CNC cut flat pack cabinet
Denovo Audio HTM-12
Price Break Down:
1 - Eminence 12" Deltalite woofer: $124.99
1 - Denovo DNA-325: $69.20
1 - Denovo SEOS-15 waveguide: $35
1 - Set of crossover parts: $55.92
2 - Ports: $7.80
1 - 1" thick CNC cut front baffle: $18
1 - Set of screws and gaskets: $1.50
Packaging Material: $5.00
Paypal Fee: $8.94
Retail Cost: $326.35
Discount Cost: $309.12 with free shipping
HTM-12 CNC cut Flat Pack Full Cabinet $40
Surely you've reverse-engineered a set of these, Zim? Pretty sure it's a pair of Carmody's Spitfire....
Spitfire, Bare Bones Kit (Pair) - Meniscus Audio
Spitfire, Bare Bones Kit (Pair) - Meniscus Audio
Attachments
Satori MW16P-8 midbass and SB SB29RDC tweeter
If you want a traditional dome+midbass two way dessign, consider building the diyAudio Kalasan with the $70 lower cost SB29RDC-4 dome tweeter plus passive L-R-C components which can meet ~ $275/speaker budget. Two cabinets discussed: slanted bafflle tilted - 8 degrees; pyramid. You can also build flat baffle cabinet, and build a 8-degree tilt-ramp to put under the front edge... flexible slant!
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World Famous Designer Joachim Gerhard developed the Kalasan SB Satori monitor in a well documented diyAudio thread. Pyramid cabinet for diffraction control. MW16P-8 midbass + TW29R-4 tweeter.... you can swap the lower cost SB29RDC tweeter with little sonic difference. There is also a tilted - 8 degrees slanted baffle cabinet similar to Jeff Bagby's Satori Kairos(baffle tilted 14 degrees).
Joachim Gerhard final Satori Kalasan crossover 5.0 circuits from the Kalasan diyAudio thread. # 700
SB Acoustics Satori Monitor
SB Acoustics Satori Monitor
measurements post# 699
crossover circuits post# 700
photos post# 801 762 746
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If you want a traditional dome+midbass two way dessign, consider building the diyAudio Kalasan with the $70 lower cost SB29RDC-4 dome tweeter plus passive L-R-C components which can meet ~ $275/speaker budget. Two cabinets discussed: slanted bafflle tilted - 8 degrees; pyramid. You can also build flat baffle cabinet, and build a 8-degree tilt-ramp to put under the front edge... flexible slant!
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World Famous Designer Joachim Gerhard developed the Kalasan SB Satori monitor in a well documented diyAudio thread. Pyramid cabinet for diffraction control. MW16P-8 midbass + TW29R-4 tweeter.... you can swap the lower cost SB29RDC tweeter with little sonic difference. There is also a tilted - 8 degrees slanted baffle cabinet similar to Jeff Bagby's Satori Kairos(baffle tilted 14 degrees).
Joachim Gerhard final Satori Kalasan crossover 5.0 circuits from the Kalasan diyAudio thread. # 700
SB Acoustics Satori Monitor
SB Acoustics Satori Monitor
measurements post# 699
crossover circuits post# 700
photos post# 801 762 746
=========
Attachments
There seem to be a wealth of sub $500 kits for really great 2-way monitor style speakers.
One entry I would definitely consider is the LXmini by Linkwitz: LXmini Challenge. Yes, you could build yet another pair of 2-way boxes, but I figure why not go with something a little more funky? 😀
Madisound offers a fairly complete kit for $415. Note that some of the wooden pre-cut parts are backordered from China and delayed due to COVID-19. LXmini Linkwitz Lab Speaker Kit, PAIR: Madisound Speaker Components
One entry I would definitely consider is the LXmini by Linkwitz: LXmini Challenge. Yes, you could build yet another pair of 2-way boxes, but I figure why not go with something a little more funky? 😀
Madisound offers a fairly complete kit for $415. Note that some of the wooden pre-cut parts are backordered from China and delayed due to COVID-19. LXmini Linkwitz Lab Speaker Kit, PAIR: Madisound Speaker Components
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One benefit of building our (CSS) kits is that we give you a 30 day money-back guarantee (minus shipping) if you decide you don't like the kit. No other company offering kits does this as far as I know. So if you build the P215 and aren't satisfied, you can still return it even if the cabinets and crossovers have been assembled. However, we have yet to have anyone return one of our speakers.
I built the SR71. I was thinking they might end up being an upgrade for my garage speakers but they give our main speakers a run.
I may try the 20 ohm resistor across the tweeter as they are a little bright. I also over stuffed them and had to take some out.
Now time to look back through the list for suggestions for my next project 🙂
I may try the 20 ohm resistor across the tweeter as they are a little bright. I also over stuffed them and had to take some out.
Now time to look back through the list for suggestions for my next project 🙂
Attachments
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Those have always really interested me. The bi-amping and the need to have them out from the wall a fair distance makes them not quite ideal in my current setting.
That is quite a guarantee.
Those remain quite tempting.
For 500 bucks one ought to be able to get a pair of larger 3 way floorstanders as a kit without cabinet/finishing. I'd offer such if I were in that business.
Most 3 way floorstanders that I've found are closer to $1000.
The other problem I run into is it seems more of those are 4 ohm and my output transformers only have 8 ohm taps.
I will say, though, that if I can make a really noticeable leap in sound quality I wouldn't be apposed to hitting $1000 (minus the cabinets) on my next build.
I haven't heard many DIY speakers in person for comparison but I worry that if I stay in the same price range I will get similar quality just with different voicing.
I keep thinking that if the $400 SR71 speakers can run with my $1500 manufactured speakers then what could $1000 DIY speakers do.
Besides, building speakers and amps has to be cheaper than a therapist.
the sr-71 is probably very high value for the money, with a nice modern hard paper woofer technology that many other brands use. i would be careful if i upgraded.
it all depends on what you like in the sound. a 3 way would sound very different and may not necessarly be an upgrade. try to identify what you like in the sound and just find a better driver, so that you don,t go sideways, if you upgrade.
for instance, i recently bought a SS 10f for the FAST rs225/10f speaker and ended up only running the 10f fullrange. Not much bass depth at all, but i gained clarity in every parts of the spectrum because there is not cap and there are no «seams» in the sound. I can't crank it up high, but what is there is, without a doubt, worth the price of admission for me. It sounds quite close to my hd650 heaphones overall (without the bass depth of course), which i never thought would be possible for my budget. Speech/voice realism is like i never heard before Now i'm looking to build a TL for it.
If i were to build a new speaker tomorrow, i'd go for something like a «dibirama discpovery» 5+1 (big brother of the 10f for bass) or double the 10f and add a tweeter, similar to my suggestion earlier in the thread (with tc9fd10). Maybe also a 5 or 6+1 with the new ceramic woofer from sb acoustics
something like this: MTM with TC9fd
my advice: don't overpower if you don't need to. one vitually always pay a premium for power and size.
it all depends on what you like in the sound. a 3 way would sound very different and may not necessarly be an upgrade. try to identify what you like in the sound and just find a better driver, so that you don,t go sideways, if you upgrade.
for instance, i recently bought a SS 10f for the FAST rs225/10f speaker and ended up only running the 10f fullrange. Not much bass depth at all, but i gained clarity in every parts of the spectrum because there is not cap and there are no «seams» in the sound. I can't crank it up high, but what is there is, without a doubt, worth the price of admission for me. It sounds quite close to my hd650 heaphones overall (without the bass depth of course), which i never thought would be possible for my budget. Speech/voice realism is like i never heard before Now i'm looking to build a TL for it.
If i were to build a new speaker tomorrow, i'd go for something like a «dibirama discpovery» 5+1 (big brother of the 10f for bass) or double the 10f and add a tweeter, similar to my suggestion earlier in the thread (with tc9fd10). Maybe also a 5 or 6+1 with the new ceramic woofer from sb acoustics
something like this: MTM with TC9fd
my advice: don't overpower if you don't need to. one vitually always pay a premium for power and size.
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Now that I'm thinking it may be possible to build a speaker that is noticeably better than our main system speakers it narrows it down some. Before I was just building to build but the finished woodwork also got approval from my better half. I like the airy sound to the Zaph ZA5, but would like more bass and warmth.
So far, the only thing I'd like out of the SR71s is a bit more midrange warmth, I ordered a 20 ohm resistor to shunt across the tweeter and am hoping that will make the midrange more noticeable. The main speakers were B&W CM5 S2 and the thing I like about the SR71s over them is the SR71 has a lot more detail. In classical and rock they ask to be turned up louder. The B&W has more smoothness and warmth. On Jazz and Vocal they are more soothing. Although on one vocal track with the SR71s i got goose bumps.
Along with trying the shunt resistor I need to remove a bit more padding as I think that may be hampering the midrange.
Excellent point
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more «warmth» and more expensive? Revelator 5 or 6 inch + tweeter (sb29rdc?)
though i have heard the woofer. I think there are some TL or floorstanders diy versions of speaker susing the SS around for lower bass....
also, as drivers run-in, they become easier to listen to, in general. Also, i found that a good audio electrolytic is easier on the ears in general, at cost of detail, in the crossover, if you want to try that.
though i have heard the woofer. I think there are some TL or floorstanders diy versions of speaker susing the SS around for lower bass....
also, as drivers run-in, they become easier to listen to, in general. Also, i found that a good audio electrolytic is easier on the ears in general, at cost of detail, in the crossover, if you want to try that.
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Really interested in knowing your detailed comparison between the OS and the Zaphs please! Just because I’ve them too and I keep wondering if they were worth the extra cost.
EDIT : Just read you’ve gotten the SR 71. Please compare both to the Za5.2! Not many people have built them so not much comparisons to be made.
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Your cm5 s2 has got a very simple crossover filter and has a lot of potential to be improved sound quality wise. This is the secret of loudspeakers. The drive units quality is fair and more than that.
I just spent a half hour writing long descriptions of all of the speakers and when I hit submit it told me I needed to login again and lost it all. I'll try to recreate it shortly.
The speakers are all in different areas on different systems so I need to move them to the main system and listen for awhile to do a real comparison.
The OS are my left and right front speakers for movies right now. From what I remember when I first built them they sounded quite good with music on a low powered tube amp but in our larger living room they were just too small to fill it with sound. They absolutely trounced a pair of Polk T15 speakers. In a smaller room or closer setting I think they are quite good or even just as background music in a larger room. I didn't use a subwoofer with my tube amp at that time so I don't know how they would have done with that. As theater speakers I haven't ever found myself wishing for more out of them and it has always had a subwoofer backing them up. At the time I built those our main speakers were old Paradigm Phantoms and the OS came surprisingly close to them considering the smaller size and price.
The ZA5.2 are in the garage connected to 2 Heathkit A9C amps. The speakers are in terrible positions as dictated by open shelf space and still are quite enjoyable. I don't think there is much in the way of low frequencies but for the setting that is fine. Without a lot of bass the sound works well as background music and doesn't travel outside to the neighbors. They have a very airy sound that fills a 20x30 room and sounds pretty good anywhere in the room at low volumes. At one time I had them hooked up to a First Watt M2 clone in a small room and they were enjoyable, still not much bass but I could crank the amp to 11 and both would stay very clear sounding. I also didn't try them with a subwoofer but I will have to drag them in from the garage and try them in the main system with the subwoofers. I also use 1 ZA5 as a center channel and it mixes decently, at least to me, with the OS sides. The ZA5 does an exceptional job with the frequency range of voices so it makes movie dialog very easy to hear. With my prior center channels I'd often have to crank up some movies to hear what they were saying and then get blasted out of the room when something loud would happen. I also have the in-wall versions of them and while lacking in bass they have the best soundstage and room filling sound I've heard in an in-wall. I wouldn't use them for critical listening but for background sound the in-wall version are quite good.
When I finished the SR71s I connected them to the garage amps. Even though I hear it said a lot that we should spend as much as we can on speakers I've often found that there is a point where speakers outclass amps and sound worse than cheaper speakers on those amps. That seemed to be the situation with the SR71s. On the good side it sounded like I'd hooked up a subwoofer to the garage system with them. At lower volumes though they didn't have the airy sound of the ZA5.2 so they didn't fill the room. They did sound better than the ZA5.2s at higher volumes but I really try to avoid going that loud in the garage.
With the SR71s connected to my SE EL34 amp they have bass and clarity that my B&W CM5 S2s don't. They also really enjoy being played loudly and somehow make my amp sound more powerful as they don't sound like it is running out of steam at higher volume levels. Classical and rock have a lot more detail and strength behind them on the SR71. I've gotten goosbumps on a couple vocal recordings with them but overall they don't have the warmth that the CM5s have on vocal or jazz. Lower piano notes on the CM5s have a rumble like the piano is in the room and I haven't heard that yet with the SR71. The detailed highs on the SR71s can be a bit much at times so I'm hoping adding the 20 ohm shunt resistor across the tweeters will lower their level enough that the midrange can stand out more. At higher volume levels I don't notice it as much but I often listen at fairly low levels and then the high frequencies stand out more. Late night listening is pretty much all high frequencies.
I'll swap in the other speakers shortly and do a better comparison. I wish I had a microphone that would capture the sound decently so I could make clips of them.
The OS are my left and right front speakers for movies right now. From what I remember when I first built them they sounded quite good with music on a low powered tube amp but in our larger living room they were just too small to fill it with sound. They absolutely trounced a pair of Polk T15 speakers. In a smaller room or closer setting I think they are quite good or even just as background music in a larger room. I didn't use a subwoofer with my tube amp at that time so I don't know how they would have done with that. As theater speakers I haven't ever found myself wishing for more out of them and it has always had a subwoofer backing them up. At the time I built those our main speakers were old Paradigm Phantoms and the OS came surprisingly close to them considering the smaller size and price.
The ZA5.2 are in the garage connected to 2 Heathkit A9C amps. The speakers are in terrible positions as dictated by open shelf space and still are quite enjoyable. I don't think there is much in the way of low frequencies but for the setting that is fine. Without a lot of bass the sound works well as background music and doesn't travel outside to the neighbors. They have a very airy sound that fills a 20x30 room and sounds pretty good anywhere in the room at low volumes. At one time I had them hooked up to a First Watt M2 clone in a small room and they were enjoyable, still not much bass but I could crank the amp to 11 and both would stay very clear sounding. I also didn't try them with a subwoofer but I will have to drag them in from the garage and try them in the main system with the subwoofers. I also use 1 ZA5 as a center channel and it mixes decently, at least to me, with the OS sides. The ZA5 does an exceptional job with the frequency range of voices so it makes movie dialog very easy to hear. With my prior center channels I'd often have to crank up some movies to hear what they were saying and then get blasted out of the room when something loud would happen. I also have the in-wall versions of them and while lacking in bass they have the best soundstage and room filling sound I've heard in an in-wall. I wouldn't use them for critical listening but for background sound the in-wall version are quite good.
When I finished the SR71s I connected them to the garage amps. Even though I hear it said a lot that we should spend as much as we can on speakers I've often found that there is a point where speakers outclass amps and sound worse than cheaper speakers on those amps. That seemed to be the situation with the SR71s. On the good side it sounded like I'd hooked up a subwoofer to the garage system with them. At lower volumes though they didn't have the airy sound of the ZA5.2 so they didn't fill the room. They did sound better than the ZA5.2s at higher volumes but I really try to avoid going that loud in the garage.
With the SR71s connected to my SE EL34 amp they have bass and clarity that my B&W CM5 S2s don't. They also really enjoy being played loudly and somehow make my amp sound more powerful as they don't sound like it is running out of steam at higher volume levels. Classical and rock have a lot more detail and strength behind them on the SR71. I've gotten goosbumps on a couple vocal recordings with them but overall they don't have the warmth that the CM5s have on vocal or jazz. Lower piano notes on the CM5s have a rumble like the piano is in the room and I haven't heard that yet with the SR71. The detailed highs on the SR71s can be a bit much at times so I'm hoping adding the 20 ohm shunt resistor across the tweeters will lower their level enough that the midrange can stand out more. At higher volume levels I don't notice it as much but I often listen at fairly low levels and then the high frequencies stand out more. Late night listening is pretty much all high frequencies.
I'll swap in the other speakers shortly and do a better comparison. I wish I had a microphone that would capture the sound decently so I could make clips of them.