Hi,
I have a pair of old yamaha 3-ways with 12" woofer, the woofer and mid are both paper cone. They are a sealed design, but I removed the woofer and looked inside and there is no stuffing/sound deadener to speak of. Also, the drivers are connected with very thin wire and the only crossover components are caps or resistors in line with the driver leads. My question is if it would be worth it to line the walls with foam and stuff some fiberglass into the box. I'd also like to replace the wire with thicker gauge if it will make a difference, and replace the spring clips on the back with normal binding posts. I may even build a new box out of mdf the same size, because this box appears to be 5/8" particle board with a 3/4" baffle and the fake black oak vinyl has a lot of scratches on it. My main complaint with these speakers is their lack of definition, and that the bass is a little muddy at times. Would doing these mods help out in either of those areas?
I have a pair of old yamaha 3-ways with 12" woofer, the woofer and mid are both paper cone. They are a sealed design, but I removed the woofer and looked inside and there is no stuffing/sound deadener to speak of. Also, the drivers are connected with very thin wire and the only crossover components are caps or resistors in line with the driver leads. My question is if it would be worth it to line the walls with foam and stuff some fiberglass into the box. I'd also like to replace the wire with thicker gauge if it will make a difference, and replace the spring clips on the back with normal binding posts. I may even build a new box out of mdf the same size, because this box appears to be 5/8" particle board with a 3/4" baffle and the fake black oak vinyl has a lot of scratches on it. My main complaint with these speakers is their lack of definition, and that the bass is a little muddy at times. Would doing these mods help out in either of those areas?
Hi Supes
Being slightly less cynical than SY ( 😉 ), I would give the wiring and stuffing a go, but don't spend lots of money on it, it's probably not worth it.
As for rebuilding the box, I would put that on hold, and save your time and money for a new DIY project.
Being slightly less cynical than SY ( 😉 ), I would give the wiring and stuffing a go, but don't spend lots of money on it, it's probably not worth it.
As for rebuilding the box, I would put that on hold, and save your time and money for a new DIY project.
So you're basically asking, "is it worthwhile to reuse the drivers?" How old are they? Driver technology has progressed immensely; you can buy cheap drivers with pretty amazing sound. Is it worth your time to do all that work? If you want to have some fun, maybe try some triamping experiments. Crossovers can make a big difference.
I've thought of the other approach: save the cabinet and install new drivers...
I've thought of the other approach: save the cabinet and install new drivers...
thanks for the suggestions... I think I may just throw some fiberglass in there and see what happens, I have some laying around in the garage so it couldn't hurt.
I started out in DIY audio with the very same project. I modified the 3-way speakers to sounding decent just by doing a few of the things you did. I also had to re-cone though. All that trouble and interest led me into my first main project, a 3-way speaker project with 12" woofers, 5-1/4" mids and some tweeters. Over all they sounded good, but I made a few mistakes: Don't skimp out on crossovers, so you might want to replace or cfhange yours. And also, use dome tweeters. They sound much better. I used a woofer style tweeter (2-1/2" I think) for my project. It just doesn't have the efficiency of a dome tweeter and I believe it rolls off the highs, could be the crossover network though.
So I suggest you go ahead with your project of modifying your old speakers. I started out with a pair that I got for $5 each from the salvation army. You will appreciate even the slightest modifications that you do, as just about anything you do to those speakers will probably help. Especially if there's no fibeglass in the boxes.
Pete
www.peterbinsted.com
So I suggest you go ahead with your project of modifying your old speakers. I started out with a pair that I got for $5 each from the salvation army. You will appreciate even the slightest modifications that you do, as just about anything you do to those speakers will probably help. Especially if there's no fibeglass in the boxes.
Pete
www.peterbinsted.com
I can build a new box for them very easily and cheaply, so if I was going to buy new drivers I might as well just build a different speaker. I recently built a small 2-way bookshelf and am currently working on a 122L sealed tempest, so this is not my first project. I just figured that I could improve these speakers for a few bucks and use them as an extra set. They do make great party speakers.. 😎
I wouldn't bother with new boxes -- given the effort involved with that you might as well start from scratch.
That said, you can make dramatic improvements in these kinds of speakers with very little money invested. You can write the time off against experience, because what you learn can be applied to your next project.
Mods:
1/ better wire & damping have already been mentioned. The damping will lower the system Q (which is often too high in these kinds of boxes). If the Q is still too high (boomy bass) after all the other mods you can consider making the box aperiodic.
2/ treat the paper cones. Puzzlecoat can transform a cheap paper cone driver.
3/ Ductseal the baskets. This damps basket resonances, and cleans up the sound. The mids benefit greatly from this. Ductseal can be had from any HVAC wholesaler (i got my last batch from Westburnes).
4/ Stiffen the box. Run some longitudinal braces (~3/4 by 1 1/2 - 2") at a bit of an angle just offcentre of any long panel. Run them so that the panel is divided into long narrow subpanels. You can also tie together opposite walls -- this is most effective with the baffle which will be the weaskest side.
5/ you can trim off any protruding edge on the baffle (or cover with wool-felt)
6/ replace caps with better ones (or play with the size -- usually smaller). There is nothing wrong with a cap only XO as long as the speaker below rolls off smoothly and at the same place the cap brings in the upper driver. An alternative to keep cost down is to bypass the bipolar elcos with a small, higher quality cap.
Some of these points -- and a few others -- are covered on a page i put up on modding TLS80s.
dave
That said, you can make dramatic improvements in these kinds of speakers with very little money invested. You can write the time off against experience, because what you learn can be applied to your next project.
Mods:
1/ better wire & damping have already been mentioned. The damping will lower the system Q (which is often too high in these kinds of boxes). If the Q is still too high (boomy bass) after all the other mods you can consider making the box aperiodic.
2/ treat the paper cones. Puzzlecoat can transform a cheap paper cone driver.
3/ Ductseal the baskets. This damps basket resonances, and cleans up the sound. The mids benefit greatly from this. Ductseal can be had from any HVAC wholesaler (i got my last batch from Westburnes).
4/ Stiffen the box. Run some longitudinal braces (~3/4 by 1 1/2 - 2") at a bit of an angle just offcentre of any long panel. Run them so that the panel is divided into long narrow subpanels. You can also tie together opposite walls -- this is most effective with the baffle which will be the weaskest side.
5/ you can trim off any protruding edge on the baffle (or cover with wool-felt)
6/ replace caps with better ones (or play with the size -- usually smaller). There is nothing wrong with a cap only XO as long as the speaker below rolls off smoothly and at the same place the cap brings in the upper driver. An alternative to keep cost down is to bypass the bipolar elcos with a small, higher quality cap.
Some of these points -- and a few others -- are covered on a page i put up on modding TLS80s.
dave
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