MOD M-Audio Delta Audiophile 192

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felipeunix

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Joined 2013
#1
Hello everybody! :wave2:

I'm new on the forum but I followed some topics of 2013 and it was what made me register, post share and learn too.

So let's parts .. quietly .. 🙂

Here is the clean image for best viewing:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


Here, the values ​​of each capacitor:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.



And now the questions:

What is the function of each capacitor? The circuit board that was not completely clear to me. 😕
Being that has 4 inputs and 4 outputs, as follows:

channel 1 and 2 balanced inputs
channel 1 and 2 balanced outputs
channel 1 and 2 balanced direct monitoring
MIDI input and output
SPDIF input and output

I believe that the capacitors are 22uF coupling / decoupling (IN,OUT ANALOG)
10uF for ADC and DAC,
100uF for SPDIF,😕
47uF and 470uF for power supply.

PLEASE CORRECT IF I'M WRONG!

Remembering the outset that the intention is to obtain maximum transparency in the maximum possible frequency band, the traditional FLAT.

So what googled without considering the black gate capacitors for the current situation of the manufacturer, arrived at the following conclusion:

22uF - ELNA Cerafine
10uF - Panasonic FM
47uF, 100uF and 470uF - ELNA Silmic ii

But I'm still very definitely, because all reviews I see are contradictory.
Some claim that the Cerafine is completely transparent, others say that transparency is with Silmic ii.:headbash:

Keeping in mind that I live in Brazil and would have to import components, reliable places I found many reports of customer commitment was original products in these stores:

Banzai Music GmbH
Handmade Electronics Indexpage
amplifier valve kits, HIFI pre-amplifiers, speaker kits,AMP Parts, upgrade components


Please give me your suggestion.😀
Thanks for listening, and sorry the bad english.
 
#2
felipeunix said:
But I'm still very definitely, because all reviews I see are contradictory.
Some claim that the Cerafine is completely transparent, others say that transparency is with Silmic ii.
Click to expand...

Subjective reviews will always be contradictory, and you will see lots of silly claims on the net (and in audiophile magazines).

Have you measured the current response, and determined it isn't flat enough?

First you need to establish where you are now, and then figure out where you want to go. Once you have established that, every change you make should be verified either by measurement or double-blind ABX - it is all too easy to "hear" an improvement just because you changed something, even if the change isn't real.

Changing capacitor values might affect frequency response (but might also cause other issues), but just changing capacitor manufacturer probably won't.

You also have to ask yourself why the original designers choose the values and components they did. Would they have gone for inferior performance on purpose? What do you know that they don't?
 
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#7
Julf said:
Changing capacitor values might affect frequency response (but might also cause other issues), but just changing capacitor manufacturer probably won't.
Click to expand...

Forgive me if not made ​​clear in the topic, but I have no intention to change the design of the board itself, just do not want to change the values ​​of capacitor.

I just want to change the manufacturer!
Do you really think there is some improvement to swap them? 😕
 
#10
felipeunix said:
So you're telling me that with any capacitor has the same result?
Then they could be manufactured only one series of any capacitor?
Click to expand...

Of course not 🙂 - there are capacitors for different applications. They have very different characteristics such as maximum voltage, leak current, tolerance, temperature coefficient, equivalent series resistance etc., but unless you know exactly what you are doing and why, just swapping a capacitor from manufacturer X with one (with similar specs) from manufacturer Y will not make a difference.
 
#11
Julf said:
Of course not 🙂 - there are capacitors for different applications. They have very different characteristics such as maximum voltage, leak current, tolerance, temperature coefficient, equivalent series resistance etc., but unless you know exactly what you are doing and why, just swapping a capacitor from manufacturer X with one (with similar specs) from manufacturer Y will not make a difference.
Click to expand...

But then, it was precisely because he thought in categories that change.
Since when G-LUXON was developed for audio? 😛

The characteristics of the other manufacturers do not carry out the replacement?

But if you're saying that G-LUXON, ELNA, NICHICON, SANYO ... would not make any difference on the board.
Then you would not have to replace the same reason ..
 
#13
Thanks for helping Julf 😀

I have an ESI Juli @ from here too.

But she ta presenting a saturation is subtle, but it has. Both the lower and in the higher frequencies.
When you play close to 0db, has this saturation while decreasing slightly to -3dB for example, is enough.

This would possibly be the fault of operational amplifiers?
 
#14
Ryssen

I was tempted but with the LM4562, but I'm from Brazil, here it "does not exist" import these delicate things is increasingly difficult.
Because it is full of fakes, and I do not believe that these "Chinese" would have the same performance as the original.

You had no further problems with the changes?
Just replaced the capacitors and the amp, or made ​​any more changes?
 
#15
You help me identify what are the main output of the amplifier audiophile 192?

I believe it is 4 for main output, 4 for monitoring output and 3 for the inputs.

But it is difficult to identify exactly what would be the main exit, because for me just replace these interests.
I'm "dating" the opa1612 😉 what do you think?
 
#16
I haven´t tried the opa1612 so I don´t know.
I would replace the 3 opamps nearest the output of the board first and see (listen)
If you order opams from places like Farnell and digikey,do you think that they sell fakes to?
 
#17
Ryssen said:
I haven´t tried the opa1612 so I don´t know.
I would replace the 3 opamps nearest the output of the board first and see (listen)
If you order opams from places like Farnell and digikey,do you think that they sell fakes to?
Click to expand...

Farnell, digikey, mouser ... among others, sell original products.
Problem is that they all charge outrageous amounts for shipping.
Example, in Brazil they charge $ 40 shipping for only a few units, depending on what you need this value increases. It has to be worth a lot of these places is worth buying. Or join friends to divide this value. 😛
 
#18
Looking at the card and considering that it has 1 set of analog inputs and 2 sets of analog outputs, the bottom 8 22µFs would have to be the output coupling caps. You would have to verify, but I imagine they aren't blocking more than a few mV of DC. If so, their main function would be avoiding pops/clicks whenever muting is activated.

Now operating polar electrolytics with no DC to speak off across them (essentially shorted out) is not exactly recommended. They'll eventually end up leaky and dead since their dielectric layer has no chance to regenerate. This may be a matter of years or decades - depending on quality, voltage rating and pure luck.

After verifying that offset is indeed small, I would try shorting the output coupling caps and replacing the input coupling caps (which I believe are the top 4 22µFs) with bipolar electrolytics. Take RMAA loopback measurements before and after - if you see a small reduction in low-frequency distortion (2nd/3rd in particular), that'll probably be it. I wouldn't expect anything audible unless the caps had degraded severely already.

Before looking into opamp swapping, reverse-engineering one channel is recommended. It'll probably be a good idea to look up typical balanced output and unbal/bal converter topologies beforehand. NE5532s are pretty usable parts and, while they do have their quirks, can be very good if you know how to employ them properly (see Samuel Groner's opamp measurements).
 
#19
I have an m-audio 410 delta and I made a huge improvement by powering the analog stage with an external regulator, nothing special just a generic lm 337/317 deal and a double insulated linear plugpack (no earth pin on the plugpack avoids ground loops and 'floats' the regulator 0 volt line)

All I did was cut the power traces on the soundcard coming from the pci +/-12v then removed the main smoothing caps on the soundcard and wired my external regulator into the holes left by the caps, regulator +ve to the +ve hole left by the +ve rail cap, regulator -ve to the -ve hole left by the -ve rail cap and the regulator 0 volt line to the -ve hole of the +ve rail cap (you could also use the +ve hole left by the -ve rail cap, they're both soundcard analog ground)

If the output stages of your soundcard are powered by the pci +/-12v it might be worth looking at 😉
 
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