hello everyone, i have tried a search on mini projectors and didn't come out with anything. I am not looking to use a mini lcd to do a projection but am looking to do a mini projection.
The reason for all this is that I am working on making a heads-up navigational display. That being, it will display a navigational map onto the windshield of a car, instead of a unit somewhere in the dash. The reason i posted in this forum is because i see that there are many ways to do projection, and for my project I will need to project a vga input onto the windshield.
Can this be done? All the diy projectors i have read are intended for larger screens, for a heads up display, I would probably need it only to be a few inches big, hopefully in full color, and without such large bulbs that produce a lot of heat.
For the entire project, in case anyone is wondering how this is going to work, I will start off with a PDA with a gps attachment like a navman, or magellan. I have the presenter to go, made by margi, that will take whatever that is on the pda and converts it to be vga. From there I have the problem of the display. If I could create a projector that takes the vga, and projects it to the windshield, I maybe able to complete my project. Looking for advice, and any ideas how to create a mini projector. Thank you.
The reason for all this is that I am working on making a heads-up navigational display. That being, it will display a navigational map onto the windshield of a car, instead of a unit somewhere in the dash. The reason i posted in this forum is because i see that there are many ways to do projection, and for my project I will need to project a vga input onto the windshield.
Can this be done? All the diy projectors i have read are intended for larger screens, for a heads up display, I would probably need it only to be a few inches big, hopefully in full color, and without such large bulbs that produce a lot of heat.
For the entire project, in case anyone is wondering how this is going to work, I will start off with a PDA with a gps attachment like a navman, or magellan. I have the presenter to go, made by margi, that will take whatever that is on the pda and converts it to be vga. From there I have the problem of the display. If I could create a projector that takes the vga, and projects it to the windshield, I maybe able to complete my project. Looking for advice, and any ideas how to create a mini projector. Thank you.
trinhlepham I don’t know how doable your project is. I would say that you should have no problem making something like this but I don’t think it would work very well in the day time. You would have to make a very bright projector and I have never seen even a retail projector claim that it is viewable in direct sunlight. If you have tinted windows it may be possible. You can get one of the 7" lcd monitors every one is talking about, use one of the portable tv's with horrible resolution, or maybe even use the lcd on the palm but I have never opened one up so there may be trouble extending the cables. You should be able to use a smaller light since you would be using a smaller display (unless you are planning on day use with no tinting). You may also have to get some different lenses than we use depending on your throw distance of the projector. Where are you planning to mount this mini projector?
i plan on making it very much like the heads up display in chevrolet cars. I would build it part of the dash, and any light or projection will be under the dash. This is why I hope it to have little heat. The heads up displays in production already, are visible in light. Even when the sun is right in front of you, it can be seen. I figure the image will just need to have a high contrast. My initial idea was to have the reflection of the image be reflected onto the windshield, and that didn't work too well. This is my second option, and I hope there is a way to make it work. This is a heads up display for those who don't understand what I am talking about. My idea would project a gps map instead, to help people drive around.
Attachments
http://www.gm.com/vc/story/chapter3/index.htm
sorry i couldn't figure out how to attach the picture.
sorry i couldn't figure out how to attach the picture.
Cool Idea...
Trinhlepham,
Hey, this sounds like a really cool idea. I would triple check any local or state laws in your area and make sure this doesn't qualify as some sort of obstruction of vision, before you come up with a finished design. You may have to work around some consideration like that if that is a problem where you live. [As far as dimensions, and position on or near the windshield.] I think it would be ideal to project onto a surface that doesn't reflect too much light or reflects it in the right direction if you are driving at night, so you don't get glare off your windows.] I also agree with SpaceNinja that if your car does not have tinted windows you will probably have trouble seeing it during the day, and even if they are it may look a little washed out if you need to rely on the system a lot.
The PDA may work for projecting through but it would have to be projecting pretty basic images. [GPS software should be basic enough] If you were using the "presenter to go" to hookup the PDA to a VGA source, you're looking into using some other LCD for your projection. This may work to your benefit or not, depending on if a PDA LCD could actually be used to project through. As far as a light source you could probably get by with something less powerful that what people use in their DIY Projectors because we mainly use them for watching movies from about a distance of 5-10' feet, depending on their setup. Since your distance would be far less, you could possibly use some sort of flouresnt lights, or something that does not generate a lot of heat since it will be built into your dashboard.
I do think you will probably have problems in creating your "heads up display" for daytime viewing, if it is similar to some of the projectors being designed here. [Mainly because they are designed to be viewed in a darker environment.] Maybe you would be able to find a specific site or forum that just talks about how HUD's are manufactured or repaired to come up with an improved design, that will work during the day. Maybe you could find some info this at the US Patent Office online also?
US Patent Office Homepage
Searched for "HUD"
-Paul-
Trinhlepham,
Hey, this sounds like a really cool idea. I would triple check any local or state laws in your area and make sure this doesn't qualify as some sort of obstruction of vision, before you come up with a finished design. You may have to work around some consideration like that if that is a problem where you live. [As far as dimensions, and position on or near the windshield.] I think it would be ideal to project onto a surface that doesn't reflect too much light or reflects it in the right direction if you are driving at night, so you don't get glare off your windows.] I also agree with SpaceNinja that if your car does not have tinted windows you will probably have trouble seeing it during the day, and even if they are it may look a little washed out if you need to rely on the system a lot.
The PDA may work for projecting through but it would have to be projecting pretty basic images. [GPS software should be basic enough] If you were using the "presenter to go" to hookup the PDA to a VGA source, you're looking into using some other LCD for your projection. This may work to your benefit or not, depending on if a PDA LCD could actually be used to project through. As far as a light source you could probably get by with something less powerful that what people use in their DIY Projectors because we mainly use them for watching movies from about a distance of 5-10' feet, depending on their setup. Since your distance would be far less, you could possibly use some sort of flouresnt lights, or something that does not generate a lot of heat since it will be built into your dashboard.
I do think you will probably have problems in creating your "heads up display" for daytime viewing, if it is similar to some of the projectors being designed here. [Mainly because they are designed to be viewed in a darker environment.] Maybe you would be able to find a specific site or forum that just talks about how HUD's are manufactured or repaired to come up with an improved design, that will work during the day. Maybe you could find some info this at the US Patent Office online also?
US Patent Office Homepage
Searched for "HUD"
-Paul-
actually this is for a project so it doesn't have to be moving and working at the same time. But I wouldn't think there is any kinds of obstruction due to HUDs already made. Tint is not allowed for the front windshield though, so I will have to rule that out. The PDA LCD is not being used for the purpose of the HUD though.
I will use a PDA something like a Palm m515 that has a SD expansion slot. Connected on it will be a gps device like a navman or magellan, so i can get gps on the pda. In the expansion slot goes the "presenter to go" which uses the SD expansion slot and converts it to a VGA output. The VGA output will display the same thing you see on the PDA. If I would connect that VGA to a Monitor, I can see the PDA screen on my monitor. This is where I thought about DIY projectors. Maybe if i use the NView Spectra C or something, and use the VGA input it has, connect the "presenter to go" directly on it. This presumingly will display the PDA to the LCD Panel Projector. And if I build the Panel into my dash, and use maybe, I dunno, LEDs, and a fresnel, project it onto the windshield. The projector is the only thing I am worried about. I assume everyone can still see a movie when a room is lighted, its just not as clear. If you could change the amound of light going through the Panel, increase the contrast, it might display a better image. This is what I hope for my projector as well. Not perfect resolution, just enough to be able to tell the difference from a road, lake, or just land. Words maybe preferable, but not necessarily the most important. Am I thinking too far off? Or does anyone have any idea if this would work or not. If someone still has some question about how it reflects, just image having a sheet of paper on your dash, it reflects off the windshield, even if you really don't pay attention to it. Now if it was only that easy....
I will use a PDA something like a Palm m515 that has a SD expansion slot. Connected on it will be a gps device like a navman or magellan, so i can get gps on the pda. In the expansion slot goes the "presenter to go" which uses the SD expansion slot and converts it to a VGA output. The VGA output will display the same thing you see on the PDA. If I would connect that VGA to a Monitor, I can see the PDA screen on my monitor. This is where I thought about DIY projectors. Maybe if i use the NView Spectra C or something, and use the VGA input it has, connect the "presenter to go" directly on it. This presumingly will display the PDA to the LCD Panel Projector. And if I build the Panel into my dash, and use maybe, I dunno, LEDs, and a fresnel, project it onto the windshield. The projector is the only thing I am worried about. I assume everyone can still see a movie when a room is lighted, its just not as clear. If you could change the amound of light going through the Panel, increase the contrast, it might display a better image. This is what I hope for my projector as well. Not perfect resolution, just enough to be able to tell the difference from a road, lake, or just land. Words maybe preferable, but not necessarily the most important. Am I thinking too far off? Or does anyone have any idea if this would work or not. If someone still has some question about how it reflects, just image having a sheet of paper on your dash, it reflects off the windshield, even if you really don't pay attention to it. Now if it was only that easy....
trinhlepham said:
trinhlepham,
I'm sorry to burst Your bubble, but this display is not very visible in direct sunlight. I know what I'm talking about, as I'm the Senior Tech for instrumentation at one of the largest OEM suppliers for the automobile industry.
I would suggest using a LCD like a HUD is used in a fighter jet. Where You look through it to see the display. The display that is shown above, is using a VFT(vacuum florescent tube) to display the information on the windshield. While VFTs are quite bright, they are not bright enough to do what You are looking to do.
Tall Shadow
what would you suggest in an attempt to try this? If i use the HUD like a fighter jet, how would i go about projecting it onto the windshield? Aren't HUDs more like a piece of glass where you see information on them. Seems like I am in a confused state, I need a little more clarification. Also I don't think it will be needed to be visible in direct sunlight. Usually the sun is above us, only time it is in front is morning or evenings. And during evenings its usually an orange color. Maybe I'm just stubborn, but is there a solution to my problem. Any help is appreciated.
I've seen that kind of display before but I don't think it's really being projected. It's just a reflection.
if it is not possible to reflect the image, how hard is it to take a lcd monitor that comes vga equipped, open it up, reverse the lcd, and put it back together. Doing it this way, I might be able just to put the entire monior in the dash, removing the casing and such, to have a reversed lcd monitor reflect off the windshield. It must be reversed in order to reflect the correct image onto the windshield.
I don't know much about the HUD's, but my guess would be that the windshield in those cars may have something extra on it to make it more reflective of the display.
I'm going to use pinball as an example since that's what I know so much about. Almost all pinball machines use a standard size playfield glass. It is tempered and a specific thickness. There are a few machines that use slightly different glass. Two of them are the pinball 2000 machines (Revenge From Mars and Star Wars: Episode 1). These machines have a standard pinball body, but the head on them is different. It has a video monitor that faces down onto the glass. The picture in the monitor is reflected back off the glass to the player and when you play, it feels like you're shooting the ball at the things on the screen instead of standard ramps and targets.
Anyway, if you look closely at the playfield glass on these machines, you will see that they have a reflective or tinted surface that fades from totally clear on the player end, to totally reflective on the monitor end.
I don't know if the HUD's in cars have any thing like this to reflect off of, but it would seem to me like it would certainly help in your situation. I wouldn't think that your projection would need to be terribly bright if you had some kind of good reflective surface for it to project on. You are after all looking to focus your light source onto a few inches, not at 100" like we typically do in here.
I'm going to use pinball as an example since that's what I know so much about. Almost all pinball machines use a standard size playfield glass. It is tempered and a specific thickness. There are a few machines that use slightly different glass. Two of them are the pinball 2000 machines (Revenge From Mars and Star Wars: Episode 1). These machines have a standard pinball body, but the head on them is different. It has a video monitor that faces down onto the glass. The picture in the monitor is reflected back off the glass to the player and when you play, it feels like you're shooting the ball at the things on the screen instead of standard ramps and targets.
Anyway, if you look closely at the playfield glass on these machines, you will see that they have a reflective or tinted surface that fades from totally clear on the player end, to totally reflective on the monitor end.
I don't know if the HUD's in cars have any thing like this to reflect off of, but it would seem to me like it would certainly help in your situation. I wouldn't think that your projection would need to be terribly bright if you had some kind of good reflective surface for it to project on. You are after all looking to focus your light source onto a few inches, not at 100" like we typically do in here.
the hud
is already in use, my wife's car has one
i will check it out with the dealer what exactly is used
it's a cadillac and it has got a lot of bells and whistles in it, it even drives????
but when you are used to an A. R. nothing comes even close 🙂 !!!!
J-P
is already in use, my wife's car has one
i will check it out with the dealer what exactly is used
it's a cadillac and it has got a lot of bells and whistles in it, it even drives????
but when you are used to an A. R. nothing comes even close 🙂 !!!!
J-P
trinhlepham I was playing around with your idea this weekend and I think you may be able to do this with out projection. I placed a piece of plastic with letters on my dashboard and I was able to see the reflected image clearly. I tired it in my other car and the same thing. You may just be able to invert a normal lcd and mount it in you dashboard. The reflection looks good but is unviewable in the night time but if you leave the back light on you should be able to see the reflection at night too. I don’t know if you have tired this yet or not, but try placing you pda on you dash and see if you can see the reflection.
try this
Hey, I swiped this link from another thread here. It's a super cool site with all kinds of stuff that I really don't need, but want most all of it.
http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/
Take a look in there... I didn't copy the link, but they have a HUD glass/screen in there. It was like 6" x 9" or something like that. It's made so that at the right angle, you can see stuff reflected on it as well as see through it. I think it was all of like $12 so it would be worth a try to see if you can mount it on your dash above your LCD.
Keep us informed!
Hey, I swiped this link from another thread here. It's a super cool site with all kinds of stuff that I really don't need, but want most all of it.
http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/
Take a look in there... I didn't copy the link, but they have a HUD glass/screen in there. It was like 6" x 9" or something like that. It's made so that at the right angle, you can see stuff reflected on it as well as see through it. I think it was all of like $12 so it would be worth a try to see if you can mount it on your dash above your LCD.
Keep us informed!
I have tried it just by using a 10" dvd player, and it is very visible at night, the problem is daytime viewing. Not very clear, and easiliy readable. Still tinkering, just trying to find the right idea that would make it work.
trinhlepham said:
Yes, in a HUD there is usually a somewhat reflective piece of glass that has the information displayed on it. The pilot looks through the HUD to see both the display and, whatever is beyond it.
I was suggesting that You use a LCD to do basicly the same thing.
Well there is, and there isn't! Sorry!
What you are looking to do has been tried (For quite some time now) by several OEM Cluster manufacturers, with limited success.
The Cadillac Cluster that was mentioned, is the one made by denso. My company makes the electronic version for the same car (without a HUD).
We have been working on something like this for YEARS.
Will it work? Yes!
Is it Great? No!
Will You like it? Maybe!
Performance is good at night, poor in sunlight. It's hard to get a good point in-between seeing the HUD and seeing the road. If the HUD is bright it blocks the view of the road. If the road view is clear, it's hard to see the HUD. Herein lies the problem.
Keep trying, many breakthroughs are from "Mom&Pop" shops!
Tall Shadow
🙂
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