On my (long) list of projects to tryout there is the synergy horn.
So today I was searching for what kind of mid drivers would work in a synergy horn.
EBP should be as high as possible I think and the driver shouldn't be to big to get a good cross over frequentie.
So what would you guys recommend.
the Lavoce FSN030.7 doesn't look to bad I think. 3" and EBP=351
4 of these drivers will do something I guess.
Faital Pro 3FE22 doesn't look to bad either EBP=220
Then I also found the beyma 3FR30ND with EBP=324
That's what I found for 3" drivers.
maybe 4" could also be possible.In that case I found the following drivers:
B&C has the 4NDF34 with an EBP of 393, a decent power handling and Xmax also.
Then There is also the B&C 5MDN38 but this is already 5" and probably to big.
For the compression driver I am thinking of the PRV audio D290 as I had very good experiences with them.
For the low section I haven't decided the size yet. Will be probably 10".
Any advice is welcome
So today I was searching for what kind of mid drivers would work in a synergy horn.
EBP should be as high as possible I think and the driver shouldn't be to big to get a good cross over frequentie.
So what would you guys recommend.
the Lavoce FSN030.7 doesn't look to bad I think. 3" and EBP=351
4 of these drivers will do something I guess.
Faital Pro 3FE22 doesn't look to bad either EBP=220
Then I also found the beyma 3FR30ND with EBP=324
That's what I found for 3" drivers.
maybe 4" could also be possible.In that case I found the following drivers:
B&C has the 4NDF34 with an EBP of 393, a decent power handling and Xmax also.
Then There is also the B&C 5MDN38 but this is already 5" and probably to big.
For the compression driver I am thinking of the PRV audio D290 as I had very good experiences with them.
For the low section I haven't decided the size yet. Will be probably 10".
Any advice is welcome
Lazy (& poor) man's option...
Buy a used (or what the hell, new) pair of Synergy Don't let the dealer talk you into a pair that really aren't three way or you won't get midranges. 😀
In fact, this was my solution (lucked out on a beat up pair of Yorkville Unity).
Buy a used (or what the hell, new) pair of Synergy Don't let the dealer talk you into a pair that really aren't three way or you won't get midranges. 😀
In fact, this was my solution (lucked out on a beat up pair of Yorkville Unity).
Ok didn't see that topic.
A lot of information there.
Looks like the celestion TF0410MR driver looks nice.
But not all T/S parameters are there. I can't seem to find any specified QES for that driver. Is that because it has a closed back?
Would be nice to cross around 1kHz.
A lot of information there.
Looks like the celestion TF0410MR driver looks nice.
But not all T/S parameters are there. I can't seem to find any specified QES for that driver. Is that because it has a closed back?
Would be nice to cross around 1kHz.
My multiple entry horn uses Faital Pro 3FE25 and I achived a 1.27kHz crossover. BM-D446 on PH-4220
Its hard to make the mid ranges go high in frequency so life is easier if you choose a compression driver that can go low. If you want to 'cheat' you could use a coaxial compression driver and ommit the midranges. Its also important to choose a compresion driver that is 'pancake' style to minimise the the distance between the midrange taps and the point the midrange is reflected by the compression driver.
Its hard to make the mid ranges go high in frequency so life is easier if you choose a compression driver that can go low. If you want to 'cheat' you could use a coaxial compression driver and ommit the midranges. Its also important to choose a compresion driver that is 'pancake' style to minimise the the distance between the midrange taps and the point the midrange is reflected by the compression driver.
Check these also:
FRS 8 M - 8 Ohm | Visaton
EBP (Fs/Qes) = 215
Great cheap driver.
or, I used this one recently in a test, on a B52 horn, with 12mm diameter tap hole.
FRS 5 X - 8 Ohm | Visaton
EBP=216
What I like about this one is that I can get it closer to the throat so the measured response shows usable 500hz-1900hz.
FRS 8 M - 8 Ohm | Visaton
EBP (Fs/Qes) = 215
Great cheap driver.
or, I used this one recently in a test, on a B52 horn, with 12mm diameter tap hole.
FRS 5 X - 8 Ohm | Visaton
EBP=216
What I like about this one is that I can get it closer to the throat so the measured response shows usable 500hz-1900hz.
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If you google search the site you should find an image of that drivers parameters entered on the hornresp input screen.
Ok
I did find the parameters using the google search.
Trying out some things using the synergy calc spreadsheet and hornresp.
Only the VTC and ATC parameters that make up the front volume are not really clear.
My goal is to get to 1kHz as the PRV D290P can cross to this.
For the lower end I would like to cross around 400Hz (it's a rough estimate).
I Think some good 12" drivers could cross there.
If i'm not mistaken the SH50 uses these midranges?
Thanks for the help so far, stil have a lot to get my head around
I did find the parameters using the google search.
Trying out some things using the synergy calc spreadsheet and hornresp.
Only the VTC and ATC parameters that make up the front volume are not really clear.
My goal is to get to 1kHz as the PRV D290P can cross to this.
For the lower end I would like to cross around 400Hz (it's a rough estimate).
I Think some good 12" drivers could cross there.
If i'm not mistaken the SH50 uses these midranges?
Thanks for the help so far, stil have a lot to get my head around
I was looking around some more and has anyone tried the Beyma CD10nd compression driver?
Recommended crossover is 1k2 (1k6 is recommended for the DE250), it can have a little more power and the sensitivity is higher.
I don't have any experience with the DE250, I did use the DE500 once but in a comparison with the beyma CD10nd the Beyma was the clear winner.
So just asking your opinion.
Using the 4" Celestion I think 1k2 should be possible with some first tryouts using hornresp.
For the lower section I haven't decided yet. 12" would be big for getting mounted on the horn.
First gonna try mounting the mids and work from there. Gonna use some cheap MDF as there will be more then one build until I get it right....
Recommended crossover is 1k2 (1k6 is recommended for the DE250), it can have a little more power and the sensitivity is higher.
I don't have any experience with the DE250, I did use the DE500 once but in a comparison with the beyma CD10nd the Beyma was the clear winner.
So just asking your opinion.
Using the 4" Celestion I think 1k2 should be possible with some first tryouts using hornresp.
For the lower section I haven't decided yet. 12" would be big for getting mounted on the horn.
First gonna try mounting the mids and work from there. Gonna use some cheap MDF as there will be more then one build until I get it right....
A lot of the cheaper pro drivers model ok for midbass. I started planning my synergy project so long ago that the Fane sovereign 10 125 I was intending to use is now discontinued!
The cheap faital pro 10 sims ok..
Rob.
The cheap faital pro 10 sims ok..
Rob.
but with a cone that big you can't get it as physically close to the compression driver which limits the upper frequency limit. In some of Danleys horns a coaxial driver is used and the cone diaphragm output fed in just to get the midrange-tweeter distance down.
I did have one idea on how to use large midranges and that was to connect them to the horn wall via an expanding duct so that they physically could be spaced away from the horn wall, but the into the horn would be closer to the throat so the cancellation notch would be pushed up in frequency. A digital delay would be used to compensate for the increased path length. I think Patrick/John has some designs with expanding taps. I should get a 3D printer to try some of these ideas out!
I'm not 100 percent sure but think the actual taps don't have to be central to the driver, which may mean a larger driver could still have taps close to the throat ?
Personally I've used the celestions for my project and they are working out well. (Listened / measured 1st time today so need more time to set up properly)
Personally I've used the celestions for my project and they are working out well. (Listened / measured 1st time today so need more time to set up properly)
I think I'll have a go at the celestions.
Any details about your horn? (H angle, W angle and lower cutoff)
Any details about your horn? (H angle, W angle and lower cutoff)
My test box is very close to the SH50 but with 2 mids not 4. If your project is for home use you do not need 4 mids per box.
So 50 x 50 with a 550Hz cutoff.
So 50 x 50 with a 550Hz cutoff.
It's gonna be used in the garden and some smaller outdoor parties so a little headroom wouldn't hurt I think.
It also stays at 8ohm this way using 8ohm drivers.
How High can the mids play on your horn?
It also stays at 8ohm this way using 8ohm drivers.
How High can the mids play on your horn?
Mine are still in the test box phase and the mids start dropping at 1k. I'm using a 4mm spacer ring to allow clearance for the cone movement so I'm going to make some filler pieces to bring the air volume in front of the cone down. Hopefully that will bring up the high end up a bit. (Not necessary for my project but worth doing before the final build)
The Hornresp model is very close to measurements. The measurements don't have the 'hash' above the high cutoff that the model predicts.
Rob.
The Hornresp model is very close to measurements. The measurements don't have the 'hash' above the high cutoff that the model predicts.
Rob.
Ok,
I'm gonna make some clearance for the surround using a router. That way the front volume will be smaller.
If needed I can router some more clearance for mounting them so the front volume could be even smaller.
I'm gonna make some clearance for the surround using a router. That way the front volume will be smaller.
If needed I can router some more clearance for mounting them so the front volume could be even smaller.
I was also wondering if 50° angle isn't to shallow.
If you array them it seems logical but as a single speaker wouldn't it be better to do 90*60? The bill waslo design used 90*60. I really like his spreadsheet.
I was thinking to go for 80*60 and the lowest frequency for pattern control would be 370Hz going lower would make the speaker a little bit to big.
If you array them it seems logical but as a single speaker wouldn't it be better to do 90*60? The bill waslo design used 90*60. I really like his spreadsheet.
I was thinking to go for 80*60 and the lowest frequency for pattern control would be 370Hz going lower would make the speaker a little bit to big.
They don't have to be central, but the more off-center they are, the more the higher frequencies drop off because of cancellation due to differing path lengths from areas of the cone to the tap/port. That can be used to advantage in some cases, but in most cases it is a problem to be dealt with.
