Hi, do you people think this horn will work with my 206e or 206En
PiSpeakers Forum - Horn Basics - Wayne Parham, April 12, 2004 at 02:01:43. Thanks for your advice in advance.
Regards
PiSpeakers Forum - Horn Basics - Wayne Parham, April 12, 2004 at 02:01:43. Thanks for your advice in advance.
Regards
I'm on the cell phone at the moment and can not search this site. Last night I saw Le Cleachorn thread somewhere here with fe206e with front horn and K-horn bas bin.
Hello,
something related:
Welborne Labs - As a user of FE206E's in Azurahorns - Triodeuser, January 29, 2004 at 05:38:38
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/174413-le-kleachorn-apologies-jmmlc.html
High Efficiency Speaker Asylum - Re: large horn - waissin, October 15, 2003 at 22:16:16
Large Front Loaded Horn Speaker [Archive] - Stereo Net Australia
Best regards ,
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
Thank you! Honered to see mr. Le Cleac'h himself wrote an answer to my question. The second link is one I saw. Tonight when home will read other links. Cheers!
Edit:
Minhaj, sorry for hijack! I'm just curious about same or similar idea.
Edit:
Minhaj, sorry for hijack! I'm just curious about same or similar idea.
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After the discouraging sim of the 206e I also tried 206en and that looked a lot, lot, lot better. Question is how much the whizzer-cone will contribute to hf-response? Note it needs a 3dm3 backchamber to keep lf-response OK. Will work with open back if you can accept a higher Fc.
Sim is with a full Le'Cleach 200Hz, T=0,8 and 2,55:1 compression. 2:1 might be OK too.
Sim is with a full Le'Cleach 200Hz, T=0,8 and 2,55:1 compression. 2:1 might be OK too.
Attachments
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IIRC the whizzer cone kicks in at 3K or so, which is why the data sheet response becomes so ragged at that point.
The rising response in the upper register might help a lot. I guess the treble response will also be better than the sim due to direct radiation. Still a tweeter might be added due to beaming. Jean-Michel can probably predict this.
No other sims than those with full LC shows a close to flat respons on 0-20 degree axis. The others like Sph and Tx shows rising response.
Anyway dump the idea of the conical Pispeakers horn.
No other sims than those with full LC shows a close to flat respons on 0-20 degree axis. The others like Sph and Tx shows rising response.
Anyway dump the idea of the conical Pispeakers horn.
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Hi Lars, Jean and Waf,
For more than a year I am trying to decide about a horn loaded system. Problem is no component is available (woofer, compression driver, midrange horn) in my country.
However finally I have decided to build petite onken with Eminence kappa 12, later I will upgrade with Altec 414 -which 414 is best with this cab? 414z, 414a, 414b, 414C?
May be 950pb in a 320/425hz Tractrix horn, or le5-2 in Edgar horn. Understand that Le Cleac'h horn is better but I do not know how I build one. May be the petal type is easier-Jean can you help me in this?
For the top I would use a twitter, the challenge is:
1. Sourcing kappa 12 or Altec 414
2. Sourcing midrange compression driver/le 5-2
3. Building Le Cleac'h horn (I can build Edgar midrange horn no problem)
4. Twitter - I will start with anything which is in my junk box
Pls help me to proceed. -Regards
For more than a year I am trying to decide about a horn loaded system. Problem is no component is available (woofer, compression driver, midrange horn) in my country.
However finally I have decided to build petite onken with Eminence kappa 12, later I will upgrade with Altec 414 -which 414 is best with this cab? 414z, 414a, 414b, 414C?
May be 950pb in a 320/425hz Tractrix horn, or le5-2 in Edgar horn. Understand that Le Cleac'h horn is better but I do not know how I build one. May be the petal type is easier-Jean can you help me in this?
For the top I would use a twitter, the challenge is:
1. Sourcing kappa 12 or Altec 414
2. Sourcing midrange compression driver/le 5-2
3. Building Le Cleac'h horn (I can build Edgar midrange horn no problem)
4. Twitter - I will start with anything which is in my junk box
Pls help me to proceed. -Regards
Hmm, where does your 206e fit into that system? If you use it you will probably only need a tweeter and a subwoofer. I can sim a square tractrix for you too.
Thanks Lars for your offer.
Ref post #1 I was asking for 206e or 206eN because I already have them. Not necessarily I must use them in FLH.
About your sim, pls do for 320hz tractrix, can you also tell me compression ration, throat size and mounth size? I will be oblized.
Regards
Ref post #1 I was asking for 206e or 206eN because I already have them. Not necessarily I must use them in FLH.
About your sim, pls do for 320hz tractrix, can you also tell me compression ration, throat size and mounth size? I will be oblized.
Regards
Use your Fostex at 150 Hz as midhorns. They will be great with a front area of only 65*65cm. Easy to build. Make templates from Hornresp. Yoy will surely be able to cross o lot higher tha 100Hz.
About Petite Onken I built a pair myself, that I not have have left. You can only use 414-8A or 8B. Forget about Kappa12. There are other ones that will work but I don´t know any.
Use this easy spreadsheet that I have mave. You only need FS, Qts and Vas.
http://www.revintage.se/Onken.xls
This is the import data for Hornresp.
About Petite Onken I built a pair myself, that I not have have left. You can only use 414-8A or 8B. Forget about Kappa12. There are other ones that will work but I don´t know any.
Use this easy spreadsheet that I have mave. You only need FS, Qts and Vas.
http://www.revintage.se/Onken.xls
This is the import data for Hornresp.
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Wanting FLH For 206e Too
Hello all,
I've been wanting to build a 206e FLH for a while now, and have been sitting on my 206e drivers until I can figure out how.
I guess you could say what I want is a midrange horn for the 206e. It seems like a good number of the horn systems I have found that offer using the 206e or similar 8" Lowther drivers in a FLH use a separate subwoofer and often supplement with a super tweeter...so I guess that would make the 206e horn a very wide midrange??? I personally want to start with just the 206e front horn and a subwoofer.
I have read about Azurahorns...and the use of the 160 with the 206e. They are not accessible to me financially, especially when one considers shipping from Australia. I have also seen and read about the Oris horns. Same deal...too expensive. Les Hudson's design over at Wavebox etc. etc. The only way it will happen for me is if I can figure out a way to build it myself.
I don't mean to high jack your thread, instead perhaps we can figure out a way to help make it possible for people who are interested in the same application of this driver as you, but who unlike you are completely intimidated by modeling software and a lot of the calculators that are required in order to come up with a proper template to build a FLH for the 206e. It seems like I am always doubting myself when it comes to plugging in required information...especially when making decisions about issues like using compression with a FLH.
What I have is the skill to build molds, cast and/or laminate and turn horns with some effort and ingenuity. I am very good at fabrication. What I don't have is a template and the confidence in designing it in a way that I am sure will give me the proper results.
I am pretty sure at this point that what I would start with is a horn tuned to 150 Hz for the 206e. Especially after reading Martin King's article http://www.quarter-wave.com/Horns/Front_Horn.pdf on designing front horns. He uses an exponential horn profile, but his writing for the most part made a lot of things about FLHs clearer and more understandable to me. Especially since he uses the 206e as a possible driver for his design example and recommends supplementing it with a subwoofer like many of the systems I mentioned. The one thing he doesn't provide is a template for any kind of horn profile. No one else is handing out this information either to my knowledge.
Regardless, I had become more interested in a Tractrix profile after reading about its use in quite a few of the examples I found of horns allowing for the 206e. Eventually I found Volvotreter's webpage and even his plans for his 150 Hz Tractrix Mid Bass Horn http://www.volvotreter.de/downloads/150Hz_Midbass_Tractrix_Horn_v1.3a.pdf. However, I was not interested in building a square horn really...I wanted to build a conical horn. I wasn't sure if the template from his plan could be used directly for the profile of a conical horn. I had downloaded his spreadsheet and come very close to duplicating his dimensions by plugging in the data for the 206e in several of its different calculators with my best guesses at anything I wasn't sure of. I tried contacting him about the question of using the template several weeks ago, but have not received an answer.
I have also found and downloaded a copy of M. Le Cléac’h's spreadsheet to calculate horns using his method. To be honest, I am lost with it and can't even begin to figure out how to use it even though I would be very happy to try and build a 150 Hz Le Cléac’h horn for my 206e. I just don't understand Excel very well. When it comes to spreadsheets like these I find it impossible to figure out what fields I am supposed be manipulating.
So I guess my question is, could some of the more computer and design savvy members interested in these Fostex 206e and similar speakers used in front horns calculate and post some actual down loadable template files with dimensions in something like a .pdf file for us lesser beings who are trying, but full of self doubt when it comes to calculating them ourselves? Perhaps a database of more common or desirable frequencies and profiles? This could provide help and become something that could expand and cover a broader range for people that want to use other drivers as well and allow them to build their own horns if they have the fabriction skills but have doubts about their design/computer skills. I'd love it if I could find a .pdf template I could download and trust to fabricate a 150 Hz Tractrix or Le Cléac’h horn for my 206e drivers. Maybe this is too much to ask though. If so, please feel free to ignore me and I apologize for my lengthy interuption of the thread.
Kevin
Hello all,
I've been wanting to build a 206e FLH for a while now, and have been sitting on my 206e drivers until I can figure out how.
I guess you could say what I want is a midrange horn for the 206e. It seems like a good number of the horn systems I have found that offer using the 206e or similar 8" Lowther drivers in a FLH use a separate subwoofer and often supplement with a super tweeter...so I guess that would make the 206e horn a very wide midrange??? I personally want to start with just the 206e front horn and a subwoofer.
I have read about Azurahorns...and the use of the 160 with the 206e. They are not accessible to me financially, especially when one considers shipping from Australia. I have also seen and read about the Oris horns. Same deal...too expensive. Les Hudson's design over at Wavebox etc. etc. The only way it will happen for me is if I can figure out a way to build it myself.
I don't mean to high jack your thread, instead perhaps we can figure out a way to help make it possible for people who are interested in the same application of this driver as you, but who unlike you are completely intimidated by modeling software and a lot of the calculators that are required in order to come up with a proper template to build a FLH for the 206e. It seems like I am always doubting myself when it comes to plugging in required information...especially when making decisions about issues like using compression with a FLH.
What I have is the skill to build molds, cast and/or laminate and turn horns with some effort and ingenuity. I am very good at fabrication. What I don't have is a template and the confidence in designing it in a way that I am sure will give me the proper results.
I am pretty sure at this point that what I would start with is a horn tuned to 150 Hz for the 206e. Especially after reading Martin King's article http://www.quarter-wave.com/Horns/Front_Horn.pdf on designing front horns. He uses an exponential horn profile, but his writing for the most part made a lot of things about FLHs clearer and more understandable to me. Especially since he uses the 206e as a possible driver for his design example and recommends supplementing it with a subwoofer like many of the systems I mentioned. The one thing he doesn't provide is a template for any kind of horn profile. No one else is handing out this information either to my knowledge.
Regardless, I had become more interested in a Tractrix profile after reading about its use in quite a few of the examples I found of horns allowing for the 206e. Eventually I found Volvotreter's webpage and even his plans for his 150 Hz Tractrix Mid Bass Horn http://www.volvotreter.de/downloads/150Hz_Midbass_Tractrix_Horn_v1.3a.pdf. However, I was not interested in building a square horn really...I wanted to build a conical horn. I wasn't sure if the template from his plan could be used directly for the profile of a conical horn. I had downloaded his spreadsheet and come very close to duplicating his dimensions by plugging in the data for the 206e in several of its different calculators with my best guesses at anything I wasn't sure of. I tried contacting him about the question of using the template several weeks ago, but have not received an answer.
I have also found and downloaded a copy of M. Le Cléac’h's spreadsheet to calculate horns using his method. To be honest, I am lost with it and can't even begin to figure out how to use it even though I would be very happy to try and build a 150 Hz Le Cléac’h horn for my 206e. I just don't understand Excel very well. When it comes to spreadsheets like these I find it impossible to figure out what fields I am supposed be manipulating.
So I guess my question is, could some of the more computer and design savvy members interested in these Fostex 206e and similar speakers used in front horns calculate and post some actual down loadable template files with dimensions in something like a .pdf file for us lesser beings who are trying, but full of self doubt when it comes to calculating them ourselves? Perhaps a database of more common or desirable frequencies and profiles? This could provide help and become something that could expand and cover a broader range for people that want to use other drivers as well and allow them to build their own horns if they have the fabriction skills but have doubts about their design/computer skills. I'd love it if I could find a .pdf template I could download and trust to fabricate a 150 Hz Tractrix or Le Cléac’h horn for my 206e drivers. Maybe this is too much to ask though. If so, please feel free to ignore me and I apologize for my lengthy interuption of the thread.
Kevin
Kevin,
Learn Hornresp! Will take you just a few hours. Forget about Volvotreter and MJK. You have it all and also optimized in Hornresp. Simulation of all parameters, templates and much more. Also remember a Lecleach and a Tractrix differ a lot in size. A 150Hz Tractrix has a diameter of 65cm and a full LC 126cm.
Learn Hornresp! Will take you just a few hours. Forget about Volvotreter and MJK. You have it all and also optimized in Hornresp. Simulation of all parameters, templates and much more. Also remember a Lecleach and a Tractrix differ a lot in size. A 150Hz Tractrix has a diameter of 65cm and a full LC 126cm.
Hello,
You may find here attached:
- the profile of a 150Hz Le Cléac'h for the FE206E (Fc = 150Hz)
-the contour of a half petal to build a "gramophone type" horn having 9 petals.
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
You may find here attached:
- the profile of a 150Hz Le Cléac'h for the FE206E (Fc = 150Hz)
-the contour of a half petal to build a "gramophone type" horn having 9 petals.
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
Hello Jean-Micel
I didn´t use the text file. By taking Am=12955cm2 from Hornresp and running "ROT(Am/Pi)" I got a somewhat other radius. It is probably necessaryto use At=80-100cm2 at what the "en"-model sims nice. This makes the horn somewhat longer though. I used T=0,8.
EDIT: Just doublechecked and the export seems to differ from the "input parameters".
Nice thing that David now incorporates the petals, I haven´t looked into it though. How many petals is your sim for? I don´t have the new version of Hornresp here at work.
I didn´t use the text file. By taking Am=12955cm2 from Hornresp and running "ROT(Am/Pi)" I got a somewhat other radius. It is probably necessaryto use At=80-100cm2 at what the "en"-model sims nice. This makes the horn somewhat longer though. I used T=0,8.
EDIT: Just doublechecked and the export seems to differ from the "input parameters".
Nice thing that David now incorporates the petals, I haven´t looked into it though. How many petals is your sim for? I don´t have the new version of Hornresp here at work.
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I have actually downloaded hornresp. And I spent some time trying to decipher the interface and reviewed some of the help file. I was quite intimidated by it, and felt as if I really didn't understand enough about horns and didn't have the proper answers for much of the data that was being asked for in the program.
I will admit that I need to discipline myself more strictly to sit with it and perhaps work through one of the tutorials that I have found threads for. I am a slow learner when it comes to software. It often seems abstract and unintuitive to me. I learn things much faster in a hands on or physical/mechanical manner.
I will continue to try though. Thank you.
Kevin
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