Premise: I want to build all the Full Range speaker designs. In all seriousness the best way to figure out what you like is to try them all right?
The problem is that my space is super limited and I'll never really be able to have more than one pair of speakers out at a time.
The proposed solution would be to build a pair of something like the rythmik FM8 (dual 8" subwoofer 20hz-250hz +-3db.
Why not buy the Rythmik? My first thought was that they're expensive, but I eventually got over the cost because I think this is going to be expensive either way. The real reason is that I'd gladly trade those last 10hz on the bottom for 1000 or even 500hz on the top. The FM8 is 12w x20h x 16d.
I looked at the SDX10 and even the 12PW, but it looks like they're going to want significantly larger boxes. Anyone build something similar that's a better fit for my needs than the FM8?
These would ideally allow me to create smaller versions of many of the designs here and give me the latitude to cross them over 200-500 range.
Thanks
The problem is that my space is super limited and I'll never really be able to have more than one pair of speakers out at a time.
The proposed solution would be to build a pair of something like the rythmik FM8 (dual 8" subwoofer 20hz-250hz +-3db.
Why not buy the Rythmik? My first thought was that they're expensive, but I eventually got over the cost because I think this is going to be expensive either way. The real reason is that I'd gladly trade those last 10hz on the bottom for 1000 or even 500hz on the top. The FM8 is 12w x20h x 16d.
I looked at the SDX10 and even the 12PW, but it looks like they're going to want significantly larger boxes. Anyone build something similar that's a better fit for my needs than the FM8?
These would ideally allow me to create smaller versions of many of the designs here and give me the latitude to cross them over 200-500 range.
Thanks
My favorite midbass driver these days is the SBA 5x8 racetrack driver.
It can be used in a lot of different designs, can be mounted vertically or horizontally, has good power and can take some EQ abuse without flinching.
It can be used in a lot of different designs, can be mounted vertically or horizontally, has good power and can take some EQ abuse without flinching.
How are you using it? (vented, sealed, radiator?) Is it a dedicated box or built in as a helper? How are you handling power/DSP?
The inexpensive 8" MCM 55-2421 horn driver with its ~31 Hz Fs, tiny Vas, ~1 kHz BW will work with EQ: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2329567.pdf
[4] wired series/parallel sims 105 dB/30 Hz/240 W. The data sheet shows a nominally flat HF response, but lists a high inductance, so may need a Zobel if it can't be corrected with DSP, though if 105 dB is sufficient higher up, then just may need to boost the > ~150 Hz BW.
[4] wired series/parallel sims 105 dB/30 Hz/240 W. The data sheet shows a nominally flat HF response, but lists a high inductance, so may need a Zobel if it can't be corrected with DSP, though if 105 dB is sufficient higher up, then just may need to boost the > ~150 Hz BW.
The 8" Dayton RS225-4 could fit in that volume (40-45L if you use a port) and still have a F3 of about 33Hz ported. max volume to that response is +/- 103dB which is more than enough for typical home hifi use. It's also a very cheap but very good driver and usable way higher than you want to crossover it.
Already built subwoofers? A shame they did not take advantage of push-push.
The Rythmic woofer system is supposedly very good, that box above could easily be better. Can you get just the drivers and amps?
250 Hz is not really sufficient extention for a woofer in a WAW. I usually want at least 1kHz, but they poorest performing helper woofer i have used reached 1.7kHz.
SDX10 will get close to 1kHz, A12pw 5kHz. I’d put the SDX10 below the A12pw (i have both), but given the extention possible with A12pw a smaller midbass coupler (3-way system, low up to about 50 Hz, midbass coupler up to 200-300 Hz and a good midTweeter above that.
dave
Thanks everyone for your suggestions. Time to model some enclosures.
@Dave at what frequency (if any) do you think push/push becomes a problem?
@Dave at what frequency (if any) do you think push/push becomes a problem?
Depends on box and the dispersion of the side firing drivers. The passive XO in Tysen V2 crosses at 450 Hz with a pair of Silver Flute W14.
I only ever used the PP SDX10 up to 100 Hz. But i didn’t try higher. We have only used the A12pw in an MTM, but i am working on a Metronome with push-push A12pw and A5.2/3, A7ms… as midTweeter.
dave
I only ever used the PP SDX10 up to 100 Hz. But i didn’t try higher. We have only used the A12pw in an MTM, but i am working on a Metronome with push-push A12pw and A5.2/3, A7ms… as midTweeter.
dave
I'd be very interested in specifics of how you have used that and had it perform well - it seems like a really interesting driver but when I have looked for examples of people using it, surprisingly little seems to turn up. Thanks
1khz ?
seems we are getting away from full range drivers.
I can't run a 6db @ 2khz (on this forum), but a 6db @ 900hz is fine ?
Then we are back to the rss225 + 10f...……………….
I'd like to see a 2 way, 6db, maybe 200hz crossed...…………..
Maybe crossing at baffle step (300hz would be a bit smaller)
seems we are getting away from full range drivers.
I can't run a 6db @ 2khz (on this forum), but a 6db @ 900hz is fine ?
Then we are back to the rss225 + 10f...……………….
I'd like to see a 2 way, 6db, maybe 200hz crossed...…………..
Maybe crossing at baffle step (300hz would be a bit smaller)
I'm a ~life-long fan of 'FR' ovals, so curious which set of specs is closest to yours?
SB Acoustics SB15SFCR39-8 5x8" Paper Cone Woofer
https://www.wagneronline.com.au/attachments/Audio-Speakers-PA/sbacoustics/SB15SFCR39-8.pdf
TIA
I have done something similar. I built the folded Woden MLTL for the Alpair 12pw. They can put out some bass! I have small enclosures built for the A5.3 and the Jordan Eikona 2. I plan to make other ones also to use with the A12pw or by themselves in other systems. I have used all the drivers separately while I am working on my dual amp setup. Plan to use DSP to start with.
The Rythmik amp and drivers can be purchased separately without the enclosure for less.
The Rythmik amp and drivers can be purchased separately without the enclosure for less.
FWIW Greg, I haven't used this unit, but I've worked with a variety of SB drivers over the past 5 years or so; when in doubt (per the practice somebody I can't quite place taught me 😉 ) I'd always go with whatever yields the largest Vb, but more often than not, in my experience, SB's published Vas figures tend to lean toward the high side. Having a very high Qm / low Rms, they often show notable T/S change with voltage drive (more so than some others), although even accounting for that, in a number of cases, I couldn't get near what they advertised. Some, yes, but not all. I like a lot of SB units within their design context, but I recommend measuring on a high voltage drive if possible & if not, using a mean Qt, Fs, Vas between what's measured and what's advertised which should give a reasonably representative value, especially if you build a bit of fudge-factor into the alignment as a matter of course.
I can't and wouldn't try and speak for Dave or anyone else for that matter, but as it pertains to my needs, I think it's about flexibility. 250hz is likely right were I'll end up, but if in the room, 300 works better or even 400hz, then I'd like to do that. I'd also prefer not to be walking right up to the line of a drivers capability as IMO those lines can be problematic, hence why I originally asked for something that could do 500hz-1000hz. It's not that I intend to use 1000hz.
My SS 10F and Dayton RS225 is crossed at 900Hz but 1st order. It still has a lot of play below 1kHz.
Not at all. 500Hz would be my choice, but 1KHz isn't a terrible crossover frequency (it has certain advantages) and a good small wideband is much more capable of that than the majority of dome tweeters without excess distortion, and in many cases would allow a physically simpler filter, making for some potentially significant cost savings if run passively.