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I built some of these but made some changes. I used a single 10 not 2, shrunk the height of the cabinet, separated the mid / high chambers, ported it at the back for ventilation. 600 watt faital pro driver and DE250 compression driver on an RCF horn. They work great. 23 kilos each so nicely portable (one reason I went for a single and not double 10 design)
I built some of these but made some changes. I used a single 10 not 2, shrunk the height of the cabinet, separated the mid / high chambers, ported it at the back for ventilation. 600 watt faital pro driver and DE250 compression driver on an RCF horn. They work great. 23 kilos each so nicely portable (one reason I went for a single and not double 10 design)
The space varies, both indoor and out. The music is electronic, house and techno. How loud? As loud as I can get
The rest of the system is a little fluid. I am rebuilding the sub, it will most likely become 2 x fane colossus 18xb in these
I am using 2 of these for crossovers
There is couple of full range Behringer 12" speakers
I haven't decided on the high end yet.
and then the mids...
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With only a pair of 18"s, you could run a Faital 10FH520 from 100Hz-1.2kHz and have a good 1.4" driver above that. The 18"s would likely be the weak link for the sort of music you're playing.
I did this: PA system check at Batley Rugby Stadium - YouTube
With two of those 10"s per side for midrange duty. They were receiving 1KW peaks. LF was 2x Faital 15HP1060 in compact ported boxes per side.
Chris
I did this: PA system check at Batley Rugby Stadium - YouTube
With two of those 10"s per side for midrange duty. They were receiving 1KW peaks. LF was 2x Faital 15HP1060 in compact ported boxes per side.
Chris
You are going to need more signal processing to get maximum benefit from the speakers too. I would want a high pass for the subs and some kind of limiter. Without a high pass filter, a note below port tuning frequency is likely to do some damage to the drivers. Some DSP amps have power and excursion limiters too and if you do go for DSP amps, they can crossover too, so that’s one less box you need
Brian
Brian
I'm going to suggest you take a step back and come up with a complete system plan you can build towards first, otherwise chances are high you will end up with a bunch of diverse boxes that don't work well together and end up having to rebuild sections of the system over again.. which is just a waste of money and effort.
Thanks for that Chris. What is it that makes the 18” Fanes the weak link in this system? I haven’t bought them yet so it isn’t too late
Brian, when you say signal processing, are we talking passive filters in the speakers or some form of digital processing. At the moment I am a little flexible on speakers, with the amps less so. I have 2 x behringer ep2500 and 1 x epx2000 plus 2 x cx 2310 for the crossovers.
Cheers
Angus
Thanks for that Chris. What is it that makes the 18” Fanes the weak link in this system? I haven’t bought them yet so it isn’t too late
Just that the music you'll be playing requires a lot of LF output, so as you push the faders, the subs will probably run out of steam first.
If you want more output per cubic foot, take a look at the latest from B&C, Faital Pro, etc. The Fanes have an Xmax of 7.5mm. The 18" drivers I have on-hand (Faital 18XL1800) have an Xmax of 20mm, so they'll move more air than two of your Fanes.
NB - Xmax isn't the only parameter that matters, but if comparing competent drivers (ie, still has a sensible Qts, BL, etc) then more is generally more.
Using the Fanes, 1x (good) 10" or 12" per side will probably do fine. With the more modern drivers, you'd likely need to double up the midbass drivers to keep up.
I'll have a think about your current amplification. Is there any room to change those?
What's your overall budget for this?
Chris
You need a filter in the signal chain somewhere. The EP2500 has a high pas filter built in (they call it low cut), and it can be set at 30 or 50Hz, so that would be ideal for your subs - just set the switches to suit
Brian
I would sell the CX2310 and get a digital crossover. This will give you PEQs to correct speakers frequency response, steep crossovers and time delay to time align speakers. These features are very useful when you have a fully horn loaded systems where speakers passbands are not extending much past the crossover points and time alignment is needed.
Behringer | Product | DCX2496
the t.racks Crossovers – Thomann UK
I would go fully horn loaded with your tops as it reduces the power requirement from the amps and reduces the number of drivers to reach a given SPL. What it costs you is more woodworking time and larger boxes.
At the moment you have 6 channels of amplification whereas a traditional horn loaded top would be three way which woudn't leave you enough channels for the subs. However recently compression drivers have become available that can cover lower in frequency allowing for two way horn loaded top designs like the the PM90:
PM90 gig reports
I think people have built this with the RCF ND950 1.4 as a lower cost option to the coaxial comp making a true two way:
Product Detail - RCF
Behringer | Product | DCX2496
the t.racks Crossovers – Thomann UK
I would go fully horn loaded with your tops as it reduces the power requirement from the amps and reduces the number of drivers to reach a given SPL. What it costs you is more woodworking time and larger boxes.
At the moment you have 6 channels of amplification whereas a traditional horn loaded top would be three way which woudn't leave you enough channels for the subs. However recently compression drivers have become available that can cover lower in frequency allowing for two way horn loaded top designs like the the PM90:
PM90 gig reports
I think people have built this with the RCF ND950 1.4 as a lower cost option to the coaxial comp making a true two way:
Product Detail - RCF
Hey Chris, thanks for The feedback. First I would like to retract my earlier statement about it needing to play outside. It will at some point in time but that will be without any expectation of performance. We are looking at playing in a 100-150sqm room with maybe 100 people Max.
This started with me blowing a sub and needing to replace it. I ended on the Fane because the old one was a fane colossus and I loved the sound. But buying new for the first time allowed me to for example buy 2 x 4ohm woofers which would match the 2 x 1000 @ 4ohm of the amp nicely. The budget for this would be Max £450
I have some (8) not spectacular 200w woofers I had pictured building something like this with, wired in parallel. And running off one of the EP2500 amps. I was doing this because I like to build and am curious about more complex speaker systems. But I can also see from the advice you guys are coming with that I am engaged in something slow and painful and ultimately just as expensive as buying the proper kit now.
So, if you have any recommendations I am all ears
Thanks for that. I am looking at the DCX2496 now
The PM90 looks interesting too though I need to make sure that I also find something that is within my skill set to build. Would this not also count as a fully horn loaded design?Cheers
Angus
yep the MT 122 is also fully horn loaded. The PM90 has a few advantages:
1) lower C2C spacing between horn outputs (more even response in vertical plane)
2) much more compact
3) more modern HF horn without classic diffraction slot (diffraction slots are considered not Hi-Fi by many)
3) Reflex loaded rear chamber helping driver cooling and helping 12" driver go lower in frequency
Depends on use case:
1) MT 122 is a narrow dispersion box so would be used in multiples per side and in such usage would (with better drivers than specified on speakerplans) give greater output than a single PM90.
Disadvantages:
1) complex woodwork
1) lower C2C spacing between horn outputs (more even response in vertical plane)
2) much more compact
3) more modern HF horn without classic diffraction slot (diffraction slots are considered not Hi-Fi by many)
3) Reflex loaded rear chamber helping driver cooling and helping 12" driver go lower in frequency
Depends on use case:
1) MT 122 is a narrow dispersion box so would be used in multiples per side and in such usage would (with better drivers than specified on speakerplans) give greater output than a single PM90.
Disadvantages:
1) complex woodwork
there's loud and loud though, unless doing larger outdoor gigs your not going to use the full output of the PM90, comfortable doing 130dB/1m continuous which is still 100dB@30m. It seems a bit pointless to have single speakers capable of more output than this as you would need to think about flying the speakers getting them away from the audience to avoid too much front to back SPL variation.
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