After many different speaker setups I have come to the conclusion that I can make room for a small bookshelf speaker with a directivity of 60x60.
Imagine a Micro synergy loudspeaker using the Eminence WG-10, roughly the same size as the Eminence WG-10.
Could it be done?
Pros and cons?
Eminence WG10 1" High Frequency Waveguide 70x60 2-Bolt
Imagine a Micro synergy loudspeaker using the Eminence WG-10, roughly the same size as the Eminence WG-10.
Could it be done?
Pros and cons?
Eminence WG10 1" High Frequency Waveguide 70x60 2-Bolt
I think you will need to make it a 3 way as your mids will not be able to play low. I did a similar project modifying an off the shelf waveguide and it worked very well:
BM-D446 on PH-4220
I didn't finish writing the project up but the finished speakers which add a 15" bass reflex for <500Hz get great reviews every time they go out. Vocals are noticeably better than non point source systems, especially live vocals.
BM-D446 on PH-4220
I didn't finish writing the project up but the finished speakers which add a 15" bass reflex for <500Hz get great reviews every time they go out. Vocals are noticeably better than non point source systems, especially live vocals.
The Eminence WG10 has a width of 11.6", so it will only hold its horizontal pattern of 70 degrees down to about 1230 Hz. Is that acceptable for you?
I do not see the advantage of adding midranges to the horn. A compression driver already can reach down to the frequency at which the horn starts to lose pattern control, at which you can cross it to a 10" woofer or a horizontal array of two 5" woofers.
I do not see the advantage of adding midranges to the horn. A compression driver already can reach down to the frequency at which the horn starts to lose pattern control, at which you can cross it to a 10" woofer or a horizontal array of two 5" woofers.
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I suppose it can't be any other way?
The speaker cannot be any bigger than a small bookshelf speaker.
It's more the transition that worries me. How do you make a good soft transition from 70 degrees at 1230 to below?
If anyone have ideas, chime in
What about some sort of backloading slots like this only way smaller 3 way horn loaded mid top - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 4
The speakerfront can't be much bigger than the waveguide.
Bushmeister and myself did something similar with a larger waveguide. It worked quite well. You need to be careful not to make the ports for the bass injection too large as they impact the tweeter’s dispersion. Lots of lessons learned in that thread.
A Bookshelf Multi-Way Point-Source Horn
A Bookshelf Multi-Way Point-Source Horn
YES! Something like that would be a good option. How big should the slots be? How do I calculate something like this?
Bushmeister and myself did something similar with a larger waveguide. It worked quite well. You need to be careful not to make the ports for the bass injection too large as they impact the tweeter’s dispersion. Lots of lessons learned in that thread.
A Bookshelf Multi-Way Point-Source Horn
I have been looking at your thread. The waveguide is just too big. I need to scale it down. I don't know if it would work. What should I look for in a woofer?
I could mount 4 small cones close to the throat as possible? Would that be the right way to go?
Interesting. How does this work, are there no lobing/dispersion issues? Could you please elaborate further?
A single 10" woofer has roughly the same directivity as the horn at the frequency at which the horn loses pattern control, so it makes sense to use a 10" woofer and cross over at this frequency.
I mentioned two 5" woofers, because baffle space is limited. Two 5" woofers work because they generate an interference pattern which results in roughly the same horizontal dispersion as a single 10". A drawback of two 5" woofers is that their vertical dispersion is wider. The outputs of the woofers indeed interfere with each other and that is what narrows the dispersion to about that of a 10" woofer. This only works up to 1350 Hz (center to center woofer spacing = 1/2 wavelength), at higher frequencies side lobes start to appear.
The dimensions of the slots do not matter, as long as they are small with respect to the slot spacing. If the slots are wider, they have some directivity on their own, which must be added to the directivity of the spaced small slots. Note the equivalent of this experiment is an in-wall mounted loudspeaker. I don't know what happens exactly when the loudspeaker is free standing.
I mentioned two 5" woofers, because baffle space is limited. Two 5" woofers work because they generate an interference pattern which results in roughly the same horizontal dispersion as a single 10". A drawback of two 5" woofers is that their vertical dispersion is wider. The outputs of the woofers indeed interfere with each other and that is what narrows the dispersion to about that of a 10" woofer. This only works up to 1350 Hz (center to center woofer spacing = 1/2 wavelength), at higher frequencies side lobes start to appear.
There is an experiment in optics with two spaced slits, that would explain how this works (optics deals with waves like acoustics).
The dimensions of the slots do not matter, as long as they are small with respect to the slot spacing. If the slots are wider, they have some directivity on their own, which must be added to the directivity of the spaced small slots. Note the equivalent of this experiment is an in-wall mounted loudspeaker. I don't know what happens exactly when the loudspeaker is free standing.
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Adding holes close to the throat is bad as it impacts the tweeter a lot more than farther away. Will require a sim to see how it performs. I have done this with cheap high Qts woofers and nicer low Qts woofers. Depends on how much volume you have. I would go for holes farther away and use lower XO which requires a full range as tweeter as most CD’s can’t go very low.
Slots would be preferable compared to conventional T-W configuration. The slots would make the baffle smaller. It can't be much bigger than the waveguide itself.
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Another thought:
If we ditch the waveguide, how would directivity be if the tweeter was placed in the center of a circle of small woofers? I could imagine the woofers creating a lot of diffraction for the tweeter, which must be avoided. If the tweeter was recessed in the baffle, and the circle of woofers were covered with absorptive material to dampen diffraction from the tweeter. it would be sort of a synergy horn just with soft walls.
Has anyone tried that?
If we ditch the waveguide, how would directivity be if the tweeter was placed in the center of a circle of small woofers? I could imagine the woofers creating a lot of diffraction for the tweeter, which must be avoided. If the tweeter was recessed in the baffle, and the circle of woofers were covered with absorptive material to dampen diffraction from the tweeter. it would be sort of a synergy horn just with soft walls.
Has anyone tried that?
Won't the smaller waveguide limit the pattern control? Isn't a major "selling point" of the Unity or Synergy idea to get pattern control as low as possible? If a smaller Synergy would have worked, Danley would have sold one
Unfortunately I have limited space. Some pattern control is better than none. If there are other ways to get the same or better pattern control, I’m not fixed on a synergy horn.
Have you seen the Patrick Bateman Unitized Image Control Waveguide project thread? https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/319698-unitized-image-control-waveguide-3.html#post5728746
There are a lot of measurements and full design of the crossover. I had a pair printed. The only disadvantage is that if you want to get the used Gento midranges, you pay more for the postage than for the drivers - which I did, they should arrive next week. The good news is that there are some 2" speakers which fit also, e.g. the SICA 2 inch (tested by myself) or Visaton FRS5-X (not tested).
There are a lot of measurements and full design of the crossover. I had a pair printed. The only disadvantage is that if you want to get the used Gento midranges, you pay more for the postage than for the drivers - which I did, they should arrive next week. The good news is that there are some 2" speakers which fit also, e.g. the SICA 2 inch (tested by myself) or Visaton FRS5-X (not tested).
bigger is almost always better but even a small
Synergy solves the center to center distance challenges that exist in conventional 2 or 3 way designs
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