!8bits is definitely a step in the right direction, but its not quite hi-res is it? PCM1702 makes the grade for me but even that's around $5 out here whereas 16 TDA1545s comes in about the same price and give oodles more I-out 🙂
THD+N is similar between PCM61/AD1860 (with adjustment) and PCM1702/AD1862 (if you don't count on getting -K grades that I found out that is almost impossible today).
As for the -88dB of TDA1545 - you know that I have a different view of that compared with you 🙂
As for the -88dB of TDA1545 - you know that I have a different view of that compared with you 🙂
Yeah I know, I know - you're a more numbers guy than me. But you're getting there... 😛 I reckon paralleling the 1545s improves that figure but I can't measure it because my I/V stage distorts considerably more than -88dB 😀
ahh lol, i knew i'd seen that somewhere, ive only been looking at the AKMs really this week and its more the AK4399 that interests me anyway, but in scanning them for you I didnt pic up on that line, just the title and the body text; so sorry about that ha. me i dont care all that much, its the external reference and OSF that has me most interested.
I guess just before you finish your quest the unobtainium ARDA TECH AT1401 will come to reality 😛
doh, just checked that too, nope its DS multibit too
This is one nice example of a hijacked thread!
Bencat asked, post number 1, if someone owns the Metrum Dac, and if the used chips could be identified.
No replies however until now but off topic reactions from members (even moderators - Planet 10 are you there??) who hijack the thread by suggesting their own (and of course better) options.... no wonder that Bencat is silent since post #1...
Well, I own this dac, and it is indeed a great sounding one as well.
Together with a friend (who also bought one in the meantime) we compared this Dac to a number of over- and or upsampling current output based dacs (BurrBrown), and delta sigma based dacs (AD1955).
The Metrum Dac sounds (at least to our ears) more natural, more dynamic.
I am not so much interested in "why": wether it is because it is non oversampling, or because it can do without an analog output stage.
Cees, the designer, has put quite some energy in designing this dac, and the fact that he did not apply socalled "audio" chips to reach his design goals might confirm his open minded-ness and quality as an engineer.
I understand and respect his decision to remove the part numbers of the chips; there is already enough intellectual theft going on, and I sincerely hope that the so called DIY audio community will never be able to identify the chips.
Bencat asked, post number 1, if someone owns the Metrum Dac, and if the used chips could be identified.
No replies however until now but off topic reactions from members (even moderators - Planet 10 are you there??) who hijack the thread by suggesting their own (and of course better) options.... no wonder that Bencat is silent since post #1...
Well, I own this dac, and it is indeed a great sounding one as well.
Together with a friend (who also bought one in the meantime) we compared this Dac to a number of over- and or upsampling current output based dacs (BurrBrown), and delta sigma based dacs (AD1955).
The Metrum Dac sounds (at least to our ears) more natural, more dynamic.
I am not so much interested in "why": wether it is because it is non oversampling, or because it can do without an analog output stage.
Cees, the designer, has put quite some energy in designing this dac, and the fact that he did not apply socalled "audio" chips to reach his design goals might confirm his open minded-ness and quality as an engineer.
I understand and respect his decision to remove the part numbers of the chips; there is already enough intellectual theft going on, and I sincerely hope that the so called DIY audio community will never be able to identify the chips.
I (naturally enough) don't quite see the thread the same way. Seeing as the designer (as quoted in 6moons) says this DAC is good for 24bits, its only fair to expose that little charade to potential buyers who happen upon this thread. That's not to say that the Octave isn't a great performer subjectively (which is what matters, ultimately). My view is Cees should be charging more (to allow him to invest in R&D for its successor) as plenty of reviews are saying it punches above its weight in the current market.
As far as I know Cees is working on a more expensive dac, which, among other things, features more than the one input of the Octave (I'm not counting the optical input..).
The Octave should best be considered as an upgrade to a CDP.
didnt see this..erm i think you took the wrong meaning. the TDA is an audio dac from many moons ago, the dac in question here is a modern industrial high bandwidth, high output dac without any audio input formats, or any of the trimmings and needs custom hardware and software to make it work for audio.
ie. not even close.
a cheetah can reach 100km/h in a matter of a few seconds, as can a Corvette.. does this make them the same?
pieter, sorry but thats a load of bull. a simple unambiguous question was asked and there was only on topic posts pertaining to the answer until the question was in fact answered... the OP did not return, since then we discussed it a bit further, the OP still didnt return so we carried on a conversation. the subjective quality does not make up for what amounts to misrepresentation, which should be uncovered on a forum such as this. nobody said anything at all about using a dac like that being a bad thing, just that it was obviously a unique selling point that the marketing department and press latched onto and that it was NOT 24bit and it was NOT expensive
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Whoa, really!? The AT1401 is actually a delta-sigma converter?! Where did you get that info?
sorry Ken, i thought it was true multibit too, but i had 3 of their datasheets open and with such similar names i flicked to the wrong page. its the ADC thats delta sigma. I didnt look as closely because only minutes before i'd found that the AKM (AK4390) i assumed was true multibit was multibit delta sigma
as you were; waiting..waiting...waiting
as you were; waiting..waiting...waiting
Nowhere is revealed what DAC-ICs are actually used in the Octave. In pictures it's also clearly visible that the printing has been sanded off, so this is on purpose.
Why then did you provide a link to the datasheet of a TI DAC8581 and write about it as if it's certain that it's the one inside the Octave (times 8)???
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Mere speculation...
One other thing: apart from the unidentified converters the six layer PCB is essential part of the design, not just to hold the parts in place and supply the connections but to make the design sound as it does (magnificent).
Very little room for upgrading (think of your favorite power cord and interconnects) as there is also no analog output stage "to tweak".
Because this is the one most probably being used in that DAC. Based on my observation of the layout and the information provided in the 6moons article where it was reviewed. I don't know it for sure. If anyone has a better suggestion let's hear it.
In the absence of any other suggestions, then I'm fairly certain its this one. All the evidence given fits this chip.
After glancing though the datasheet, I can see why one might think it's the DAC8581, but I still have some doubts.
There's also a review of the Octave by Hifi Critic, and they measured the actual resolution to be 18 bits. I can't see how that's possible with 16 bits DACs.
Metrum Octave review by Hifi Critic
There's also a review of the Octave by Hifi Critic, and they measured the actual resolution to be 18 bits. I can't see how that's possible with 16 bits DACs.
Metrum Octave review by Hifi Critic