My Mellotron is a noisy beast. It works fine, but the hiss it makes is prodigious. I know that with the head arrangement, its not going to be all that quiet, but OTOH, I've really been thinking a lot about updating the playback electronics with something a bit newer.
Right now it has the stock circuit, although I did go through it and replaced all the electrolytics and a good number of the more critical resistors, and that did seem to help but I think I could do better.
But before I get started, it would be nice to know what I have, without going through the effort of working out the schematic from the boards themselves. Anyone have a schematic for this thing?
Right now it has the stock circuit, although I did go through it and replaced all the electrolytics and a good number of the more critical resistors, and that did seem to help but I think I could do better.
But before I get started, it would be nice to know what I have, without going through the effort of working out the schematic from the boards themselves. Anyone have a schematic for this thing?
Mellotrons don't use loops, FWIW. They have about 7-8 seconds of play time, and when you release the key, a spring rewinds the tape.
However, the noise that is bothering me is not so obvious during playback. So I am talking about the noise floor of the electronics.
However, the noise that is bothering me is not so obvious during playback. So I am talking about the noise floor of the electronics.
Playback preamps made out of some low niose opamps woudn't be very hard to do.
But on the record side things can get a bit tricky.
However it can be done. jer
But on the record side things can get a bit tricky.
However it can be done. jer
Not a problem, because (as far as I know) Mellotron's are play only.
Interesting fact - the 'flute' at the start of 'A Stairway To Heaven' was actually a Mellotron and not a flute.
There was a project in Guitar Player a long time ago that was an Echoplex "de-hisser". It was basically 2 circuits, an EQ to boost highs on the input side and and an EQ with the opposite effect for the output side, sort of the same concept as using RIAA for records. Probably would work equally well on your Mellotron, although I'm not sure how the input side would have to be rigged if it's play-only.
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There is no record function. You buy tape sets from the manufacturer, Streetly Electronics.
The hiss is entirely from the EQ circuit, and I suspect that the transistors have become noisy. An opamp circuit is not out of the question, but I have to sort out the EQ first- that is why a schematic would be handy.
The hiss is entirely from the EQ circuit, and I suspect that the transistors have become noisy. An opamp circuit is not out of the question, but I have to sort out the EQ first- that is why a schematic would be handy.
Other concerns aside for a moment, if you can identify which transistors are in the noisy EQ circuit, it should be easy enough to ID them, and just replace them with low noise equivalents. A bit of a shotgun approach, but bypasses the lack of a schematic.
You beat me to it.
That would be a better approach than hacking an exteremly rare vintage piece. jer
That would be a better approach than hacking an exteremly rare vintage piece. jer
The thing always was hissy; it's just that, when it came out (in '66, I believe; the year I first saw a moog synthesizer) everything hissed: Fender Rhodes, clavinet, tape machines, guitar amps, perhaps not the Hammond organ, but that rattled. So it went unnoticed. The basic idea of running that many magnetic playback heads in series, and amplifying the lot at once almost guarantees that.
Unfortunately I gave all the schematics away when we sold the studio instrument; and it was a Novatron, anyway, but I think any appreciable improvement in noise was due to the removal of the capstan speed servo information from the audio electronics. The Mellotron preamp picked up radio signals, and they made extra noise; ours was screened with aluminium foil, over just about all its surface (with a grounding wire from the body to the removable cover.
It would be possible, as the mellotron has no envelopes or anything. to build a mechanical detecor if any key were depressed, and mute the output otherwise. Or even put a good, rapid noise gate or dynamic noise filter on the output, thus leaving the instrument unmodded. Does the mechanical noise of the motor turning and the tape slithering back when you release it not bother you?
If you absolutely had to record your own Mellotron tracks there was a kit that stepped the tape down from three eighths to quarter inch, and you could record two tracks (starting at precisely the same moment, not that easy back in analogue days) on a standard quarter inch transport, at 19 cm/sec (seven and a half inches per second), then cut to length, mar start, install tape rack in instrument, mark start point with grease pencil, adjust start point to exactly over the heads for each note…
Modern samplers are slightly easier to use, as well as not dropping out of tune if you play more than a three note chord.
Unfortunately I gave all the schematics away when we sold the studio instrument; and it was a Novatron, anyway, but I think any appreciable improvement in noise was due to the removal of the capstan speed servo information from the audio electronics. The Mellotron preamp picked up radio signals, and they made extra noise; ours was screened with aluminium foil, over just about all its surface (with a grounding wire from the body to the removable cover.
It would be possible, as the mellotron has no envelopes or anything. to build a mechanical detecor if any key were depressed, and mute the output otherwise. Or even put a good, rapid noise gate or dynamic noise filter on the output, thus leaving the instrument unmodded. Does the mechanical noise of the motor turning and the tape slithering back when you release it not bother you?
If you absolutely had to record your own Mellotron tracks there was a kit that stepped the tape down from three eighths to quarter inch, and you could record two tracks (starting at precisely the same moment, not that easy back in analogue days) on a standard quarter inch transport, at 19 cm/sec (seven and a half inches per second), then cut to length, mar start, install tape rack in instrument, mark start point with grease pencil, adjust start point to exactly over the heads for each note…
Modern samplers are slightly easier to use, as well as not dropping out of tune if you play more than a three note chord.
I've thought about the idea of just replacing the transistors- but the tinker side of me is thinking about fets or opamps, something that might be a bit better sounding. I'd make a tube circuit for it (Streetly has one) but I don't need this thing getting any heavier than it already is- I actually play gigs with it.
FWIW I have the new speed controller. You can pretty well sit on the keyboard without it slowing down.
The noise I have is irregular so its obvious that a transistor has become noisy. I suspect that the input has an impedance mismatch on account of the series heads. So I have thought about an FET input...
FWIW I have the new speed controller. You can pretty well sit on the keyboard without it slowing down.
The noise I have is irregular so its obvious that a transistor has become noisy. I suspect that the input has an impedance mismatch on account of the series heads. So I have thought about an FET input...
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Have you tried using cold spray to maybe find the culprit?
When a noisey transistor gets froze, usually, it will become quiet and then sometimes crackle and pop, then gets noisey again as it warms up .
Sometimes it will actualy fix the transitor for a while, but it will eventualy become noisey again. jer
When a noisey transistor gets froze, usually, it will become quiet and then sometimes crackle and pop, then gets noisey again as it warms up .
Sometimes it will actualy fix the transitor for a while, but it will eventualy become noisey again. jer
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Cold spray Is in the order of -40c.
I hate intermitent issues as they are the worst diagnose.
Another trick is to take a small plastic rod or toothpick (something rigid and doesn't conduct) and gently poke and scrape at the boards and parts on the board.
This will help to find a bad solder connection or some times a intermitent part.
I have found bad caps this way especialy electrolytics,they can get noisey aswell. jer
I hate intermitent issues as they are the worst diagnose.
Another trick is to take a small plastic rod or toothpick (something rigid and doesn't conduct) and gently poke and scrape at the boards and parts on the board.
This will help to find a bad solder connection or some times a intermitent part.
I have found bad caps this way especialy electrolytics,they can get noisey aswell. jer
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This issue is not intermittent. Its noisy all the time. I've already replaced most of the resistors with precision MF types, and I even tested the transistors by heating them with a solder iron (works as well as freezing them, IMO). The power supplies are rebuilt. All the electrolytics in the circuit are new.
I guess the thing to do is to use a scope and start at a tape head and work your way back through the stages and try to find at which point the noise starts to get considerably higher and try a new lower noise transistor at that point on one preamp board and compare it to a unmodified preamp section.
I realize how fustrating it is without a schematic.
I know that this is a long shot but can you get a preamp board out and take some quality closeups of it to post?
Have tried contacting streetly or one of those other guys that claim that they do work on the mellotron?
I searched the best I could do but I will keep trying for you.
I am pretty good at reading boards. jer
P.S. can you post the transistor numbers?
I realize how fustrating it is without a schematic.
I know that this is a long shot but can you get a preamp board out and take some quality closeups of it to post?
Have tried contacting streetly or one of those other guys that claim that they do work on the mellotron?
I searched the best I could do but I will keep trying for you.
I am pretty good at reading boards. jer
P.S. can you post the transistor numbers?
I'm pretty sure I can sub the transistors easily enough. Of course one plan was just to go through the equalizer board and replace the transistors en masse. What is happening here is that in addition to wanting to fix it, I also want to make it better- and I don't think that is so unreasonable since transistors have come a long way since the Mellotron was first built. But I am to update it with newer parts (FETs for example) I am going to need the schematic.
I can trace it off the board and was hoping that I would not have to do that but it looks like that may be the best shot.
Streetly does have support for the older machines despite not showing it on their website. They are the ones I got the new speed controller from.
I can trace it off the board and was hoping that I would not have to do that but it looks like that may be the best shot.
Streetly does have support for the older machines despite not showing it on their website. They are the ones I got the new speed controller from.
How many tape head channels are there?
Because I could use the schematic from either my tascam 38 or MSR-16 and make a pattern of a board for you.
And all you would have to do is print it off on a laser printer iron it to some pcb material etch it, drill it, populate it and wire it in. jer
Because I could use the schematic from either my tascam 38 or MSR-16 and make a pattern of a board for you.
And all you would have to do is print it off on a laser printer iron it to some pcb material etch it, drill it, populate it and wire it in. jer
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