Hi Guys
Need some experts here to give me a tutorial.
Why must the cross over need to be so complicated ?
Dont understand the logic behind it. Would greatly
appreciate if someone can englighten me on this.
Thks
Need some experts here to give me a tutorial.
Why must the cross over need to be so complicated ?
Dont understand the logic behind it. Would greatly
appreciate if someone can englighten me on this.
Thks
Martin Logan Odyssey crossover is not complicated at all.
10" woofer has a simple second-order low-pass filter (Lx6 and Cx7).
8" woofer has a simple second-order low-pass filter (Lx5 and Cx6).
There is a switch (Sx1) which introduces serial resistor equal to 1.5 ohms (Rx13 and Rx14) in order to change the damping of the woofers, at will.
The rest of the crossover is a second-order high-pass filter for the electrostatic panel (Cx2 and Lx2), plus several more elements to iron out the frequency response of the els panel.
Schematic:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14528&d=1317679243
10" woofer has a simple second-order low-pass filter (Lx6 and Cx7).
8" woofer has a simple second-order low-pass filter (Lx5 and Cx6).
There is a switch (Sx1) which introduces serial resistor equal to 1.5 ohms (Rx13 and Rx14) in order to change the damping of the woofers, at will.
The rest of the crossover is a second-order high-pass filter for the electrostatic panel (Cx2 and Lx2), plus several more elements to iron out the frequency response of the els panel.
Schematic:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14528&d=1317679243
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Hi Sonce
Thank you so kindly for the advice. Yes woofer side I understand
But the high pass so many resistors, caps & we have 2 very large
value caps of 47uf & 51uf caps. I've already done some tweaks to
the crossover now speaker is grainless but still at the back of my mind
am thinking if the crossover can be simplified. I just feel that the high
pass is holding something back
Thks again
Thank you so kindly for the advice. Yes woofer side I understand
But the high pass so many resistors, caps & we have 2 very large
value caps of 47uf & 51uf caps. I've already done some tweaks to
the crossover now speaker is grainless but still at the back of my mind
am thinking if the crossover can be simplified. I just feel that the high
pass is holding something back
Thks again
Hi Sonce
Thank you so kindly for the advice. Yes woofer side I understand
But the high pass so many resistors, caps & we have 2 very large
value caps of 47uf & 51uf caps. I've already done some tweaks to
the crossover now speaker is grainless but still at the back of my mind
am thinking if the crossover can be simplified. I just feel that the high
pass is holding something back
Thks again
Thank you so kindly for the advice. Yes woofer side I understand
But the high pass so many resistors, caps & we have 2 very large
value caps of 47uf & 51uf caps. I've already done some tweaks to
the crossover now speaker is grainless but still at the back of my mind
am thinking if the crossover can be simplified. I just feel that the high
pass is holding something back
Thks again
Use high quality caps for CX1 & CX2 (such as Mundorf Supreme) and also replace bipolars CX6 & CX7 with MKP. Done that before with good results, I wouldn't change any component values unless I knew exactly what I was doing and even then maybe not..
Go over to the ML owner club site....there info over there on crossover upgreads an other info.....I have owned the Odyssey....an the Ascent....the same step up trans in both...the Ascent to me.... sound a lot better...the same panels are used in both ....you can change some wire on the primary & secondary sides. of the step up trans ...uses less parts ....an get what I think is a better sound?......just one mans finding....
Thanks guys for the advice
Tyu i didn't get what you mean . Can you pls
elaborate thank you. The Ascent Crossover looks so much
simpler with only 2 caps
Thks again Guys
Tyu i didn't get what you mean . Can you pls
elaborate thank you. The Ascent Crossover looks so much
simpler with only 2 caps
Thks again Guys
I gess that they needed to make one more speaker...with the same panel..why.....to make more money...thats bizz.....that nothing new...
But I thought that the Odyssdy crossover sounded odd .....an did not sound right to me....thin I got a pr of Prodigy.....saw there crossover...then I new there was some crossover voodoo going on...I did not care for there sound....but I have owned a lot of logans.....if someone had had only one pr....thay may think thay sounded ok....
The same esl stepup tranfourmer was used in all 3 diff speakers.....two tranfourmers are used in each Prodigy...biger panels 16" ...Odyssdy an Ascent i 12"....so you can rewire your setpup tran....an put the Ascent crossover in...it works fine sound better to me!....other may feel diff......the wires are there thay have been tape down on the trans...
have fun get better sound.....
But I thought that the Odyssdy crossover sounded odd .....an did not sound right to me....thin I got a pr of Prodigy.....saw there crossover...then I new there was some crossover voodoo going on...I did not care for there sound....but I have owned a lot of logans.....if someone had had only one pr....thay may think thay sounded ok....
The same esl stepup tranfourmer was used in all 3 diff speakers.....two tranfourmers are used in each Prodigy...biger panels 16" ...Odyssdy an Ascent i 12"....so you can rewire your setpup tran....an put the Ascent crossover in...it works fine sound better to me!....other may feel diff......the wires are there thay have been tape down on the trans...
have fun get better sound.....
look at the two crossover side by side.....you see on the secdary side of the Ascent setup tran...it a gray wire that runs to the ...black wire to the back of the panels...
On the Odyssey its purple wire......pull the purple wire off the black wire ...tape off the end....
put the gray...it shorter an tapet down on the trans front...becarful pulling it up....you well have to add more wire..run that gray wire to the black panel wire.....were the purple was.....just like on the schematic...see
That the only wire change.....
Ascent crossover will work fine with the purple wire still in...it just dose not sound as good to me.....
Thay had to make the same panel sound diff....right....make more money..
Maybe if you cant read a schematic you may need too STOP??...justsaying
On the Odyssey its purple wire......pull the purple wire off the black wire ...tape off the end....
put the gray...it shorter an tapet down on the trans front...becarful pulling it up....you well have to add more wire..run that gray wire to the black panel wire.....were the purple was.....just like on the schematic...see
That the only wire change.....
Ascent crossover will work fine with the purple wire still in...it just dose not sound as good to me.....
Thay had to make the same panel sound diff....right....make more money..
Maybe if you cant read a schematic you may need too STOP??...justsaying
Hi Tyu
Thanks a million. Re Grey wire is it due to a different V-out that makes
it sound better when using the Ascent crossover. Will study schematics
& try out the swap soon for high pass.
Thanks a million. Re Grey wire is it due to a different V-out that makes
it sound better when using the Ascent crossover. Will study schematics
& try out the swap soon for high pass.
I cant say.....about the winding taps...
But one thing ...do you have the panels fix?.....fix is these small bars... that catch the panels at the bottem...an stop the panel from falling out!....I have got 6 pr of these type of logans that did not have this fix...the panels fell out an rip the wires off the panels
I got these speakers for parts..for less then $100. US...you can get these fix from the ML dealers...I fix the wire back to the panels an thay work fine.....most of the time...
good luck..have fun..
But one thing ...do you have the panels fix?.....fix is these small bars... that catch the panels at the bottem...an stop the panel from falling out!....I have got 6 pr of these type of logans that did not have this fix...the panels fell out an rip the wires off the panels
I got these speakers for parts..for less then $100. US...you can get these fix from the ML dealers...I fix the wire back to the panels an thay work fine.....most of the time...
good luck..have fun..
Yes I did install a nylon plate or small bar on each side to stop the panel from slipping.
This was done a long time ago. Btw what do you hear when using Ascent crossover on
the Odyssey ? For me its seems that the Odyssey sounds kind of close in. Everything in
the music is there but sound how it's constrain, sound does not bloom & expand enough.
Another thing, I wonder if the Ascent crossover point is different from the Odyssey.
What's your take on this ? Btw Im not into wild components changes cause in doing too
much might off set the balance of the sound.
Many thanks again
This was done a long time ago. Btw what do you hear when using Ascent crossover on
the Odyssey ? For me its seems that the Odyssey sounds kind of close in. Everything in
the music is there but sound how it's constrain, sound does not bloom & expand enough.
Another thing, I wonder if the Ascent crossover point is different from the Odyssey.
What's your take on this ? Btw Im not into wild components changes cause in doing too
much might off set the balance of the sound.
Many thanks again
Well....there was a great guy over here in the states...that work in the ML service ..but he left...I got a lot of help an info from him...this run of this type speakers panels... was a bust!
That just my way of saying it....don't take offence...after all you may have paid good money...an fell that the Odyssey are fine speakers.....but over here thay sold thousand of these type of speaker without the panel fix...and yes for me this was great....but this an there need to start charging big money for replacement panels.....was nuts
Now I was in the Audio biz in the 80-90s.....I get the need to make $$....that's fine..
But to sale a pr of Prodigys for over $10k....an have the panels fall out..an I got for $200 for the pr.....heheh...
An you saw the fix....come on how hard was that...No thanks.
You tell me... what the hell type of setup is this crossover...in the Odyssed an the Prodigy.... one way to put it is ...sounds close in....to me sounds bad..with the cap on the stepup tran centertap.......sound is phasey to me.....but I have had a lot of MLs......over 10 pr...so I heard the good an the bad.......
The Ascend-I....was the follow-up to the SL3-Sequel ....crossover were vary close...great sound...SL3 uses the same stepup tran...
I gess with there need to cash in....thay felt that need to go off in space with this type of a planel setup....but thay move right back to the older type crossover with better parts...maybe...an the Air frame....that used today
I have here now..a pr of Ascent ....see pic that I just got..for $40 for the pr...panels fell out...ripet the wire off the panels...the owner could not sale..ML offer to sale him a new pr of panels an the give him the panel fix......for $2k thay sat for year then I offered him
$40....he was glad to get it....
I think you have nothing to lose...an I feel you well get better sound...you can aways put the stock crossover back...last pic is two pr I just got running....
all just one mans finding
That just my way of saying it....don't take offence...after all you may have paid good money...an fell that the Odyssey are fine speakers.....but over here thay sold thousand of these type of speaker without the panel fix...and yes for me this was great....but this an there need to start charging big money for replacement panels.....was nuts
Now I was in the Audio biz in the 80-90s.....I get the need to make $$....that's fine..
But to sale a pr of Prodigys for over $10k....an have the panels fall out..an I got for $200 for the pr.....heheh...
An you saw the fix....come on how hard was that...No thanks.
You tell me... what the hell type of setup is this crossover...in the Odyssed an the Prodigy.... one way to put it is ...sounds close in....to me sounds bad..with the cap on the stepup tran centertap.......sound is phasey to me.....but I have had a lot of MLs......over 10 pr...so I heard the good an the bad.......
The Ascend-I....was the follow-up to the SL3-Sequel ....crossover were vary close...great sound...SL3 uses the same stepup tran...
I gess with there need to cash in....thay felt that need to go off in space with this type of a planel setup....but thay move right back to the older type crossover with better parts...maybe...an the Air frame....that used today
I have here now..a pr of Ascent ....see pic that I just got..for $40 for the pr...panels fell out...ripet the wire off the panels...the owner could not sale..ML offer to sale him a new pr of panels an the give him the panel fix......for $2k thay sat for year then I offered him
$40....he was glad to get it....
I think you have nothing to lose...an I feel you well get better sound...you can aways put the stock crossover back...last pic is two pr I just got running....
all just one mans finding
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Wow your a lucky man TYU . How on earth are you able
to buy speakers on the cheap all the time. Lol
well looks like I have to gather parts to build the Ascent
crossover
Thanks again TYU
to buy speakers on the cheap all the time. Lol
well looks like I have to gather parts to build the Ascent
crossover
Thanks again TYU
Not trying to be smart..like I could......but you got make your on luck....
Well it time ...15 years for all the none fixet panels.....to fall out.... are stop working...here in south fl...it get HOt.....humidity is 70-80% over 300 days a year....old ESL panels don't work well with high humidity.....an I buy Magnepans the same way.....never pay more than $100 pr for any logan...less thay sale for over $10k new...then no more than $200....maggys same.....but there more in the $10-30...range....I got 6 pr here now all work....
To day fokes well not put there hands on any thing.....it disposable would...heheh..nuts right.....
Take the SL3s in the pic....the guy had them on CL for $800....one panels had low output ....now this guy works on Electroninks...so he call logan...thay tell him ...$1900 for two new panels....I see them set on CL....set....set....so I email his.. an say I buy for parts...$100 for the pr.....he get right back ...come get them....
I go pic them up...get them home take the back cover off.....the zip tiyes were so tite....over time thay pulled a wire feeding the panel lose....anyone would have saw this.....less than 5 mins thay where playing......just sold for $1100 for the pr....
Now this is a 2-3 time a year deal...some time the panels can be fixed....but I am way out front on the logans....an I get to hear them all in my room....I work on tube amps all so...good way get some great deals...make a little cash.....meat fokes....lot fun..hay were only here for a min......have fun....get good sound...
Well it time ...15 years for all the none fixet panels.....to fall out.... are stop working...here in south fl...it get HOt.....humidity is 70-80% over 300 days a year....old ESL panels don't work well with high humidity.....an I buy Magnepans the same way.....never pay more than $100 pr for any logan...less thay sale for over $10k new...then no more than $200....maggys same.....but there more in the $10-30...range....I got 6 pr here now all work....
To day fokes well not put there hands on any thing.....it disposable would...heheh..nuts right.....
Take the SL3s in the pic....the guy had them on CL for $800....one panels had low output ....now this guy works on Electroninks...so he call logan...thay tell him ...$1900 for two new panels....I see them set on CL....set....set....so I email his.. an say I buy for parts...$100 for the pr.....he get right back ...come get them....
I go pic them up...get them home take the back cover off.....the zip tiyes were so tite....over time thay pulled a wire feeding the panel lose....anyone would have saw this.....less than 5 mins thay where playing......just sold for $1100 for the pr....
Now this is a 2-3 time a year deal...some time the panels can be fixed....but I am way out front on the logans....an I get to hear them all in my room....I work on tube amps all so...good way get some great deals...make a little cash.....meat fokes....lot fun..hay were only here for a min......have fun....get good sound...
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