Hi folks, all the best to you
I open this thread as i'm seeking explanations about pros and cons of some markaudio products
I did attempted to find out by myself, but the info are spread out through too many post
I will build up a speaker using mark audio driver, but which one? There are too many drivers now and i don't figure out what are differences beetween them ( chr, alpair, MS , pluvias etc )
I used to have a CHR70 some years ago ..good remember
Which one should i choose now in 2021, and why?
What does the pluvia brings out to the alpair or MS, or vice versa?
MS line up more bass?
Pluvia more detail and airy?
Etc etc ..
I'd appreciate tour explanations on selection of driver
In a second time , i will need to select an enclosure type
Double BR with alpair 12p ?
Frugel-Horn with pluvia 7 ?
I saw somewhere an enclosure with double alpair
Etc etc
But first, i would like to understand advantages of the line up
Cheers
I open this thread as i'm seeking explanations about pros and cons of some markaudio products
I did attempted to find out by myself, but the info are spread out through too many post
I will build up a speaker using mark audio driver, but which one? There are too many drivers now and i don't figure out what are differences beetween them ( chr, alpair, MS , pluvias etc )
I used to have a CHR70 some years ago ..good remember
Which one should i choose now in 2021, and why?
What does the pluvia brings out to the alpair or MS, or vice versa?
MS line up more bass?
Pluvia more detail and airy?
Etc etc ..
I'd appreciate tour explanations on selection of driver
In a second time , i will need to select an enclosure type
Double BR with alpair 12p ?
Frugel-Horn with pluvia 7 ?
I saw somewhere an enclosure with double alpair
Etc etc
But first, i would like to understand advantages of the line up
Cheers
In MA:
CHR / CHN are the entry level range. Former typically have the thicker polymer baskets, latter either thinner frame metal or polymer.
Pluvias are the mid (product) range.
Alpairs are the nominal range-toppers, notwithstanding semi special editions.
Not all drive units in each range are at the same developmental stage. MA is a very small company and can't afford to do that. So for instance, the Alpair 10.3 / 10P and Alpair 12P have been around for a few years; the 7MS and 11MS are more recent units and feature new design approaches. This doesn't necessarily mean they are 'better' or 'worse' than the others -just different. Some of the older Alpair units have also morphed into the Pluvias and even CH ranges; the Pluvia 7HD for instance is basically the old Alpair 7.3 with a slightly different cap and a new basket, sold at a lower price -trickle-down approach to features etc.
Be careful with designs that you pick one that is actually designed for a current drive unit rather than an earlier one: they are not necessarily one and the same. For e.g. I have never done a DBR for the 12P; the one I did do was for the old metal cone Alpair 12 and is not suitable for the current 12P model.
Subjectively -you're on your own as by definition it means different things to different people I'm afraid. As broad notices, the Pluvia 7PHD was designed with a shelved down top end, and the Alpair 12PW is a wideband midbass so have the characteristics you would expect. The CHN70 was also created for a specific clientelle, and is quite heavily voiced through the midband & HF rather than being particularly linear. Personally I still like the 12P, even though it's not the easiest to work with, but I'm biased as I has some involvement with its design. Likewise -as far as enclosures goes, YMMV. Depends on goals, size, aesthetics, system, room etc.
CHR / CHN are the entry level range. Former typically have the thicker polymer baskets, latter either thinner frame metal or polymer.
Pluvias are the mid (product) range.
Alpairs are the nominal range-toppers, notwithstanding semi special editions.
Not all drive units in each range are at the same developmental stage. MA is a very small company and can't afford to do that. So for instance, the Alpair 10.3 / 10P and Alpair 12P have been around for a few years; the 7MS and 11MS are more recent units and feature new design approaches. This doesn't necessarily mean they are 'better' or 'worse' than the others -just different. Some of the older Alpair units have also morphed into the Pluvias and even CH ranges; the Pluvia 7HD for instance is basically the old Alpair 7.3 with a slightly different cap and a new basket, sold at a lower price -trickle-down approach to features etc.
Be careful with designs that you pick one that is actually designed for a current drive unit rather than an earlier one: they are not necessarily one and the same. For e.g. I have never done a DBR for the 12P; the one I did do was for the old metal cone Alpair 12 and is not suitable for the current 12P model.
Subjectively -you're on your own as by definition it means different things to different people I'm afraid. As broad notices, the Pluvia 7PHD was designed with a shelved down top end, and the Alpair 12PW is a wideband midbass so have the characteristics you would expect. The CHN70 was also created for a specific clientelle, and is quite heavily voiced through the midband & HF rather than being particularly linear. Personally I still like the 12P, even though it's not the easiest to work with, but I'm biased as I has some involvement with its design. Likewise -as far as enclosures goes, YMMV. Depends on goals, size, aesthetics, system, room etc.
Thepinguin,
Folks will be able to give better inputs if you share more details on:
- What type of music you intend to listen to
- How big is your room
- How loud do you usually play?
- What sort of domestic setting are you looking at and does that impose any limitations in terms of aesthetic and dimension?
- What is your playback chain (source, preamp, amplifier etc.)?
Folks will be able to give better inputs if you share more details on:
- What type of music you intend to listen to
- How big is your room
- How loud do you usually play?
- What sort of domestic setting are you looking at and does that impose any limitations in terms of aesthetic and dimension?
- What is your playback chain (source, preamp, amplifier etc.)?
Thank you both for your feedback ..
I will go for a dull range mark audio since i was happy with the CHR in a small enclosure i picked from lautsprechershop.de
Currently i listen muso with a tower speaker sonus faber venere, in a 30square meter room
I listen almost everything, but no hard rock, hiphop
I like detail and hairy sounds, with some average weight in bass though
I do not listen loud .. more average to low
My preference goes to wide soundstage feeling being inside the music
My choices narrow on alpair 7hd, pluvia 7 ou MS7 .. a 4' driver
Cheers and merci
I will go for a dull range mark audio since i was happy with the CHR in a small enclosure i picked from lautsprechershop.de
Currently i listen muso with a tower speaker sonus faber venere, in a 30square meter room
I listen almost everything, but no hard rock, hiphop
I like detail and hairy sounds, with some average weight in bass though
I do not listen loud .. more average to low
My preference goes to wide soundstage feeling being inside the music
My choices narrow on alpair 7hd, pluvia 7 ou MS7 .. a 4' driver
Cheers and merci
Alpair 7MS - my only Mark audio experience. Very detailed, will probably fill a 30 sq.m. room, but won't go very low without assistance. Better stereo imaging than normal cone drivers, partly a good top end response and partly the Negative Camber Cone.
Thanks randy, its normal that low end is light ..its only a 4'driver though it dépends on enclosure
Once i select which driver, i will select Best enclosure for low end..
Or should i select first enclosure and then driver?
Once i select which driver, i will select Best enclosure for low end..
Or should i select first enclosure and then driver?
I have the older Pluvia 7 and the 7MS. The 7MS is better (more detailed) IMHO.
I haven't listened to the newer Pluvia 7HD but its freq response seems similar to the older 7. I am using my drivers with assistance form woofers (WAW). The Pluvia needed a notch at higher frequencies for my taste. The 7MS does not need a notch and is nice and balanced for on axis and off axis listening.
I haven't listened to the newer Pluvia 7HD but its freq response seems similar to the older 7. I am using my drivers with assistance form woofers (WAW). The Pluvia needed a notch at higher frequencies for my taste. The 7MS does not need a notch and is nice and balanced for on axis and off axis listening.
Scott,
Is there a "Poplar" ML-TL style design for the 12P?
This is exactly the style of box design i am looking for. Need the full/wide ranger near the cabinet top for minimal c-t-c spacing to experiment with adding various tweeters (Raal, Heil etc.)
Thank you for your time and continued contributions.
Daniel
I think we've got one somewhere, although I don't think we've added it to the site yet. I'll have to check my tame black hole (I use it for record keeping).
Do you mean Puvia 7HD?
The Pluvia 7, i believe, is NLA. The A7ms is the “high-end driver, with the most finesse. So far it looks like the Pluvia 7HD is a favorte all rounder, the A7ms a bit more finessed, but not quite as robust at the bottom.
These work well in Frugel-Horn Mk3 or Pensil, as well as a wide range of cabinet designs (and growing, being a newish driver, it takes a while)
While many of them have not seen the ight of day, i have literally hundreds of MA boxe designs in my CAD,
Mark Audio has produced some drivers not as good as others. If you gave been happy with CHR you will REALLY like the higher end models.
dave
The “Hard Wood Series”, Poplar (A10.3/A10p) and Aspen (Pluvia 11) are the only ones done,A12p would be an obvious next one, so while not done yet could be quickly added to the library.
If you ar egoing to add tweeters perhaps the A12pw would be a better match?
dave
A12P vs A12PW
You guys are a step ahead of me...
I was saving the comparison with the A12PW for a follow-up question !
Looking at the specs,which are pretty close (12PW shows slightly more Xmax, lower Fs and efficiency, Qts and Qes better for sealed alignment), it did not seem as though the 12PW would be substantially better suited and would negate being able to run it solely full range when the mood strikes.
I think I would lean towards the Seas A26RE4 if I went for a pure woofer, but the top end limit of that driver leaves me a bit shy of confident.
Of course I also have Fostex F200A, TB 1808 and Visaton B200 i need to put in proper boxes...
Daniel
You guys are a step ahead of me...
I was saving the comparison with the A12PW for a follow-up question !
Looking at the specs,which are pretty close (12PW shows slightly more Xmax, lower Fs and efficiency, Qts and Qes better for sealed alignment), it did not seem as though the 12PW would be substantially better suited and would negate being able to run it solely full range when the mood strikes.
I think I would lean towards the Seas A26RE4 if I went for a pure woofer, but the top end limit of that driver leaves me a bit shy of confident.
Of course I also have Fostex F200A, TB 1808 and Visaton B200 i need to put in proper boxes...
Daniel
The A12pw gives up top end and efficiency to allow it to reach something like an octave lower than the A12p. And some prefer it to the A12p as a FR driver. The A12pw is highly underappreciated.
Its 10k top makes it a superb candidate for tweeters XOing from 250 Hz to 10k (cap crossed super-tweeter).
I am currently working on a comprehensive A26RE4 box planset, it has grown considerbly as i find the bits that are missing.
The A26 is a woofer, and ideal for a big sealed box (70 litres or so) and would be a superb helpwer woofer in a WAW (run a 4” PVC pipe out the back of any of the boxes in the oming planset, install a good 3” FR as midTweeter, and away you go.
Here is the A26 teaser i posted earlier (other thread).
I’d use Alpair 5.2/3 (or FF85wk if tarted up) and biamp. If you want to do a passive the wide range of sensitivities of the FaitalPro 3FE series variations might be usefuk when getting that matched up.
dave
Its 10k top makes it a superb candidate for tweeters XOing from 250 Hz to 10k (cap crossed super-tweeter).
I am currently working on a comprehensive A26RE4 box planset, it has grown considerbly as i find the bits that are missing.
The A26 is a woofer, and ideal for a big sealed box (70 litres or so) and would be a superb helpwer woofer in a WAW (run a 4” PVC pipe out the back of any of the boxes in the oming planset, install a good 3” FR as midTweeter, and away you go.
Here is the A26 teaser i posted earlier (other thread).
I’d use Alpair 5.2/3 (or FF85wk if tarted up) and biamp. If you want to do a passive the wide range of sensitivities of the FaitalPro 3FE series variations might be usefuk when getting that matched up.
dave
That first driver is unobtainium, supposedly very very good (its baby brother i found too undynamic), i am not a big W8-1808 fan but have done a box for them, the B200 is hard to put into a box. I have 4 and want to do a series wired 1.5 way, looks like a 200 litre Boffle is the best bet (did an OB, not a fan). Note, the B200 sorely needs the dustcap removed and phase plugs installed. It goes a huge way to taming the laser beam top, dramatically improving top end dispersion and doing a good job of flattening the on-axis response. Then it becomes a superb driver. A coat of modPodge also helps. C37 does as well if you don’t use too much but it is a hundred times pricier.
The ones i have, have red spots and phase plugs.
dave
I unintentionally ended up with 2 pairs of the B200. One pair is broken in with the usual mods and a set of your phase plugs installed by a previous forum owner. I loaned those to a friend that put them to use immediately. The second pair I tucked away and would like to phase plug myself if i can find a set (hint). I was very late to the B200 game.
The TB 1808 I have only used in OB, but theorize it would make an excellent mid.
The F200A I have used full range but I think they would excel as a mid/woof in some sort of ML-TL with a true tweeter and crossover. I have plans for the Brines version somewhere but am unfortunately not crazy about the aesthetics of that cabinet. The driver location in particular is the part i struggle with.
In a perfect world I would like to have a multi-use type of enclosure. Something wide and shallow, medium height that I could use to swap out various flavors of wide-rangers. And with a removable back for the B200. How's that for an ask list ?!
I haven't heard a enabled driver set yet but am very curious. The aesthetics are sweet.
Daniel
The TB 1808 I have only used in OB, but theorize it would make an excellent mid.
The F200A I have used full range but I think they would excel as a mid/woof in some sort of ML-TL with a true tweeter and crossover. I have plans for the Brines version somewhere but am unfortunately not crazy about the aesthetics of that cabinet. The driver location in particular is the part i struggle with.
In a perfect world I would like to have a multi-use type of enclosure. Something wide and shallow, medium height that I could use to swap out various flavors of wide-rangers. And with a removable back for the B200. How's that for an ask list ?!
I haven't heard a enabled driver set yet but am very curious. The aesthetics are sweet.
Daniel
And for real bass from one driver, i would rather go a bit bigger, the 10.3/10P and the CHN100 do bass much better than the 4" drivers, while still keeping the detailed top end. Those are my favorites. I'm not so fond of the 11MS altough it's certainly not a bad driver, but i like the older 10 series more.
The CHN110 is especially a steal, As good as the 10 series for less than half the price in my experience... I own both.
But if you want to stay on the 4" drivers, the 7MS looks the best indeed. I did not hear it yet, but on specs alone i would go for the 7MS.
The CHN110 is especially a steal, As good as the 10 series for less than half the price in my experience... I own both.
But if you want to stay on the 4" drivers, the 7MS looks the best indeed. I did not hear it yet, but on specs alone i would go for the 7MS.