I have been planning to build a WAW speaker with Peerless 830869 woofer and Markaudio Alpair 5.3 as mid-tweeter. The woofer will be housed in a 38.5 inch tall MLTL cabinet. Mid-tweeter will be placed above the bass cabinet inside a back-open PVC pipe.
I intend to use passive line level 1st order crossover at 300 or 400 hz and use bi-amping( two pre and two power amps). I need some suggestions about baffle step correction. Will i be needing any baffle step correction here? Baffle width is around 9.7 inches. So baffle step frequency is around 470 hz. Will any of the mentioned crossover point can affect baffle step correction? I will be using these speakers in medium to smallish rooms. So i have thought to use 3.5 db or 3 db BSC if needed. Should I go for driver level( speaker level) BSC circuit or at line level?
Here is a rough diagram of the design
I intend to use passive line level 1st order crossover at 300 or 400 hz and use bi-amping( two pre and two power amps). I need some suggestions about baffle step correction. Will i be needing any baffle step correction here? Baffle width is around 9.7 inches. So baffle step frequency is around 470 hz. Will any of the mentioned crossover point can affect baffle step correction? I will be using these speakers in medium to smallish rooms. So i have thought to use 3.5 db or 3 db BSC if needed. Should I go for driver level( speaker level) BSC circuit or at line level?
Here is a rough diagram of the design
Why 2 preamps?
9.7 gives an approximate FBS(-3) is about 470 Hz. BSC is typically best applied at 0.707 up to the BS so 332 Hz-470 Hz. If you choose your XO within theat range BSC can be applied simply by turning up the bass amp. Where exactly you cross will be somewhat dicated by room, room placement
The circular pipe will work as a midTL, we did a prototype witt the 1st gen A5. 4” pipe with a 4-3” adaptor and a small wooden baffle stuffed into that.
dave
9.7 gives an approximate FBS(-3) is about 470 Hz. BSC is typically best applied at 0.707 up to the BS so 332 Hz-470 Hz. If you choose your XO within theat range BSC can be applied simply by turning up the bass amp. Where exactly you cross will be somewhat dicated by room, room placement
The circular pipe will work as a midTL, we did a prototype witt the 1st gen A5. 4” pipe with a 4-3” adaptor and a small wooden baffle stuffed into that.
dave
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Thanks Dave.
The amps i will be using are both power amps. So Preamps will serve as volume control also. The room in which these speakers will be placed is around 12' x 9'. The Speakers will be 6 to 12 inches away from their back wall and around 10 to 12 inches away from sidewalls. Do you think 400 hz will be a good crossover point? Please suggest me ways to improve the results.
The amps i will be using are both power amps. So Preamps will serve as volume control also. The room in which these speakers will be placed is around 12' x 9'. The Speakers will be 6 to 12 inches away from their back wall and around 10 to 12 inches away from sidewalls. Do you think 400 hz will be a good crossover point? Please suggest me ways to improve the results.
I don't have real publishable plans for these as i suck on cad drawing. The only documentation i have are excell sheets full of calculations and a list of sizes for the woodshop to cut the wood. You won't understand my chaotic logic if i send you those... I thought of making plans with a good cad drawer i know, but that will be a big work...
The top is a 11.5L sealed cabinet build following the bbc princple of a thin wall mass damped lossy cabinet in 12mm birch ply with an internal frame. the driver is a Mark Audio Alpair 10.3M
The bass cabinet is a classic 77 liter sealed cabinet in 18mm birch ply with a scanspeak 26W/8534G00 driver, with only the front suspended on rubber sealend and screwed (not glued).
The crossover is a 1st order serial crossover at 250hz with 2 notch filters and an lpad on the 10.3M driver to make the woofer 4dB louder than the fullrange. This in combo with the crossover point avoid that i need a BSC (as the width of the baffle is 45cm wich corresponds with a BSC frequency of 255Hz). I also don't have real drawn plan for it as it's the result of over a year experimenting and measuring. I do again have excell sheets full of calculations in a very chaotic way.
I try to document my future builds better now, but at that time i did not care much about it. And to recreate the design in a clean ordered logic way it will take a lot of time and digging wich i rather spend on new builds
well someone saw this here and offered to dig in my chaotic notes and make a drawing. So maybe soon i'll have the plans...
Here's my Alpair 5.3 FAST build, starting tomorrow.
They are mini towers for my computer desk, digital banana for scale.
The Alpairs will have a 1.7l sealed compartment and be crossed at 1st order 200Hz. The dual woofers are Dayton TCP115 and will have a down-ported 6l box with an f3 of 53Hz.
The right tower will contain a power converter and a 2.1 tpa3116d2 board. A Speakon 4p cable will run between the speakers, connecting the Alpairs in stereo and all 4 Dayton woofers on the mono sub channel. The amp board comes with a variable sub lowpass which I'm guessing goes up to 200Hz, so I'll adjust it by ear or just leave it at max.
My hopeful response curve from winisd here:
They are mini towers for my computer desk, digital banana for scale.
The Alpairs will have a 1.7l sealed compartment and be crossed at 1st order 200Hz. The dual woofers are Dayton TCP115 and will have a down-ported 6l box with an f3 of 53Hz.
The right tower will contain a power converter and a 2.1 tpa3116d2 board. A Speakon 4p cable will run between the speakers, connecting the Alpairs in stereo and all 4 Dayton woofers on the mono sub channel. The amp board comes with a variable sub lowpass which I'm guessing goes up to 200Hz, so I'll adjust it by ear or just leave it at max.
My hopeful response curve from winisd here:
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That's an interesting idea. I haven't really thought about I guess. I assume nothing changes in the calculations?
I have the boards cut out already but no holes, so I'll have to measure if the magnet distance will make sense.
And done.
I was a few mm short of being able to mount the woofers as push-push on the sides so I had to stick to the plan.
With some tuning of the amp's crossover I managed to get a nice response curve. It's fairly flat from 40Hz to 20KHz, even the 100-300Hz range crosses over seamlessly to my ears from woofers to fr.
I am very impressed with the Alpair 5.3s, the detail, imaging and off axis is far better than my normal go-to's PS95. Very little EQ was necessary, I just I had to correct a couple of narrow dips at 270Hz and 455Hz. I couldn't locate the baffle step by ear, which I was prepared to have to do.
If I had to change anything in the design, I would go with a single side-mounted DCS165 instead of the dual TCP115's to push F-3 down another 10Hz. The low end quality would suffer so it's purely a matter of my taste.
I was a few mm short of being able to mount the woofers as push-push on the sides so I had to stick to the plan.
With some tuning of the amp's crossover I managed to get a nice response curve. It's fairly flat from 40Hz to 20KHz, even the 100-300Hz range crosses over seamlessly to my ears from woofers to fr.
I am very impressed with the Alpair 5.3s, the detail, imaging and off axis is far better than my normal go-to's PS95. Very little EQ was necessary, I just I had to correct a couple of narrow dips at 270Hz and 455Hz. I couldn't locate the baffle step by ear, which I was prepared to have to do.
If I had to change anything in the design, I would go with a single side-mounted DCS165 instead of the dual TCP115's to push F-3 down another 10Hz. The low end quality would suffer so it's purely a matter of my taste.
Nice build, I was actually thinking about doing a similar design but with only one tcp-115 per side to keep size down. It sounds like your satisfied with the first order highpass at 200hz for the alpair but to me it sounds like it´s gonna see some of the lower notes by crossing low and shallow, but I´m a total rookie.
They absolutely do see lower notes, just as you say. It gets completely overrun by the TCP's though, and the excursion on max volume is barely visible. With my slightly bass-heavy EQ settings, the woofers will bottom out long before the volume of the FR's gets uncomfortable.
I would not cross them any higher, if anything I would lower the cutoff even more. 150-180Hz would probably sound even better to play through the Alpairs than the TCP115's, and I have no doubt that they could take the extra power that comes with it. EQ'ing would perhaps be a bit more difficult.
I would not cross them any higher, if anything I would lower the cutoff even more. 150-180Hz would probably sound even better to play through the Alpairs than the TCP115's, and I have no doubt that they could take the extra power that comes with it. EQ'ing would perhaps be a bit more difficult.
In Tysen V2, with 2 side firing push-push woofers, i was surprised when after all the measurements and calulations and siulation our passive XO designer ended up at 450 Hz. Higher than i expected. With the PLLXO about 250 Hz XO was used. With a slightly different iteration we started out at 180Hz where it did sound good, but miving it up to 250 Hz, helped make for a bit meatier, more satisfying upper bass.
I am currently running an iteration of that system with (i cn’t find the right XO) woofers low passed at 180 Hz and the A5.2eN (in µMar-KenSET) running wide out. Not bad at all. I would like to get a proper HP on the Alpair.
dave
I am currently running an iteration of that system with (i cn’t find the right XO) woofers low passed at 180 Hz and the A5.2eN (in µMar-KenSET) running wide out. Not bad at all. I would like to get a proper HP on the Alpair.
dave
This is a great thread, I've been wanting to do a take on the W5 for a.whike and this is getting closer. Ive got.a visaton w130x2 woofer and trying to match it up with a decent small full ranger that has great off axis response due to me using it as pc speakers. I was looking to 3d print the bulk of the enclosure and side mount the visaton woofer, only constraint is I want to keep the internal volume to no greater than 0.08cuft due to desk space. Any recommendations on a full rangers like a BMR or other that will sound good around that 2-3inch range?
0.08ft3 -> 2.26 litre.
That is barely sufficient got the A5.2/3 let alone adding a bass driver.
The smallest of these is 2 litre, the other 2 are 2.5 litre. Significant gross volume can be saved with thinner box material, somethign very doabl with a 3D printer.
BTW, a larger version of the trapezoid has been 3D printed.
dave[/sup]
That is barely sufficient got the A5.2/3 let alone adding a bass driver.
The smallest of these is 2 litre, the other 2 are 2.5 litre. Significant gross volume can be saved with thinner box material, somethign very doabl with a 3D printer.
BTW, a larger version of the trapezoid has been 3D printed.
dave[/sup]
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