I have been intrigued with the Sibelius speaker from pearl Acoustics , and with Harley seems like a stand up guy.
in fact i added it to my wish list . now having said all that , i was taken back by the price for his speaker wire , which he said was just good copper wire , a 10 metre length x2 would set me back about 1200 dollars Canadian. I thought hold on that's awfully expensive/
having been checking out the Sibelious speaker on you tube , i started seeing lots of diy stuff which i didn't know existed, and they were using small full range driver , plywood or mdf wood.
so since i had all the info i checked Markaudio site the small driver was only 27 euros.
so the big question is how a pair of these with modified voice coil costing less than a 100 euros for the speakers to 4500 euros for the completes speaker , there is something off here
in fact i added it to my wish list . now having said all that , i was taken back by the price for his speaker wire , which he said was just good copper wire , a 10 metre length x2 would set me back about 1200 dollars Canadian. I thought hold on that's awfully expensive/
having been checking out the Sibelious speaker on you tube , i started seeing lots of diy stuff which i didn't know existed, and they were using small full range driver , plywood or mdf wood.
so since i had all the info i checked Markaudio site the small driver was only 27 euros.
so the big question is how a pair of these with modified voice coil costing less than a 100 euros for the speakers to 4500 euros for the completes speaker , there is something off here
Call it what you like.
Marketing
Addiction
Deception
Preying
I buy high quality wire made by well known manufacturers. What I don't buy is hype.
I use, and then listen to, the voices of reason.
$1,200 for a pair of cables sounds like trying to take advantage of the situation. As long as someone is willing to believe in the product and support this kind of thing, it will continue. It's also legal. Doesn't mean you have to subscribe to it.
A fool and his money...
Marketing
Addiction
Deception
Preying
I buy high quality wire made by well known manufacturers. What I don't buy is hype.
I use, and then listen to, the voices of reason.
$1,200 for a pair of cables sounds like trying to take advantage of the situation. As long as someone is willing to believe in the product and support this kind of thing, it will continue. It's also legal. Doesn't mean you have to subscribe to it.
A fool and his money...
The speaker cabinets are made from solid French oak in relatively small numbers, so a significant portion of that is in the cabinet.
Lots of speakers on the market retailing for 4500 euros/dollars made from MDF. So at least you're getting solid wood.
jeff
they look nice in the end , i'm guessing represents about 80 % of manufacturing cost , thx , man there is a whole world of diy out there
Leaving aside the question of wire, which I have no intention of getting involved in 
there is nothing 'off' about Pearl or the Sibelius pricing.
Firstly, it's a commercial product built with solid slow-growth French oak, by professional cabinetmakers who normally produce high-end furniture. The material alone does not come cheap. Nor do the drivers cost less than $100. They are a custom model which Peal have to buy in batches, which is not an inexpensive exercise. And from that, we come to commercial realities. DIYers simply buy materials and build what they can afford. Their time is free, and most have tools etc. that they already own, which are fine for home projects, but not much else. A commercial company has rather more things to consider. A non-comprehensive list would be:
-Design costs (for product and packaging) including hardware & as relevant software with business licensing
-Material costs (for product & packaging)
-Storage (building) costs for materials. With some materials, this may require climate control, or other measures to prevent warping for example
-Workshop (building) costs
-Professional tool / hardware costs
-Water, electricity (and if relevant gas) costs
-Office space (building) costs
-Office furnishing costs
-Computer, server, printer & misc. office consumable costs including software with business licensing
-Business ISP access costs
-Professional labour costs (design, cabinet-makers etc.)
-Office staff costs
-Business rates and taxes
-Where relevant, custom listening / testing system & hardware (which usually means expensive, & with some diversity, since the commercial market doesn't tend to take companies seriously if they shove it on the end of a clapped out '90s integrated retreived from the garage)
-Marketing costs. Includes digital content, photo-shoots, publicity sessions, product available for sending out to review, and hi-fi shows. Depending on location, a single show can sometimes cost a company north of £20,000 in overall expenses when travel, shipping, staff accommodation & meals, system etc. are accounted for).
-A profit margin. If you are producing on a low-volume, high-margin model, then you need to be selling to a higher end market to cover costs and provide some return to the company. It's a business: it needs to do this or it won't remain in business for very long.
These are not minor points, but they often get overlooked. A cheap exercise it isn't, unless you're already set up for it. None of this of course is exclusive to Pearl -it applies across the board. For instance, I could point to some companies selling product in the £30,000 mark (or higher) with HF drivers in them that are based on units that can be purchased retail for about £50 apiece. That's an extreme example, but plenty in the sub £10,000 using what are basically inexpensive drivers.
there is nothing 'off' about Pearl or the Sibelius pricing.Firstly, it's a commercial product built with solid slow-growth French oak, by professional cabinetmakers who normally produce high-end furniture. The material alone does not come cheap. Nor do the drivers cost less than $100. They are a custom model which Peal have to buy in batches, which is not an inexpensive exercise. And from that, we come to commercial realities. DIYers simply buy materials and build what they can afford. Their time is free, and most have tools etc. that they already own, which are fine for home projects, but not much else. A commercial company has rather more things to consider. A non-comprehensive list would be:
-Design costs (for product and packaging) including hardware & as relevant software with business licensing
-Material costs (for product & packaging)
-Storage (building) costs for materials. With some materials, this may require climate control, or other measures to prevent warping for example
-Workshop (building) costs
-Professional tool / hardware costs
-Water, electricity (and if relevant gas) costs
-Office space (building) costs
-Office furnishing costs
-Computer, server, printer & misc. office consumable costs including software with business licensing
-Business ISP access costs
-Professional labour costs (design, cabinet-makers etc.)
-Office staff costs
-Business rates and taxes
-Where relevant, custom listening / testing system & hardware (which usually means expensive, & with some diversity, since the commercial market doesn't tend to take companies seriously if they shove it on the end of a clapped out '90s integrated retreived from the garage)
-Marketing costs. Includes digital content, photo-shoots, publicity sessions, product available for sending out to review, and hi-fi shows. Depending on location, a single show can sometimes cost a company north of £20,000 in overall expenses when travel, shipping, staff accommodation & meals, system etc. are accounted for).
-A profit margin. If you are producing on a low-volume, high-margin model, then you need to be selling to a higher end market to cover costs and provide some return to the company. It's a business: it needs to do this or it won't remain in business for very long.
These are not minor points, but they often get overlooked. A cheap exercise it isn't, unless you're already set up for it. None of this of course is exclusive to Pearl -it applies across the board. For instance, I could point to some companies selling product in the £30,000 mark (or higher) with HF drivers in them that are based on units that can be purchased retail for about £50 apiece. That's an extreme example, but plenty in the sub £10,000 using what are basically inexpensive drivers.
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Yes there is. For speaker wire, just look for Belden or Mogami. Belden makes a lot of wire for audio/pro audio etc. Don't fall into the fancy speaker wire trap.
jeff
thx Jeff, no i wasn't planning to , it just struck me as odd , Harley referenced the wire as being very good ,not in the extreme , and i was shocked to see how much it was . i use 12 gauge now , it's fine.
it was only when i began to piece the relatively low cost of the driver vs the finished price , i became suspicious
it was only when i began to piece the relatively low cost of the driver vs the finished price , i became suspicious
Cal & Scott missed a big one. Distribution. There is usually a distributor (and a retailer) also taking a cut of the profit.
Probably the closest you will get to Sibilus is Scott’s Pensil with Alpair 10.3. Chris lives with a set of Pensils with A10.3eN, i have listened to them quite a lot and they are very good.
Speaker wire: short and strands pulled from a CAT5/6 cable. The high end stuff is here (Ottawa since you mention Canada): https://www.takefiveaudio.com/products/907-neotech-upocc-24-awg-teflon-insulation-cryo-treated/
$1.71/unit (i guess m but it could be metres), so a 10 ft pair would be $70 CAD + taxes at most. You can ususally score enuff free scrap CAT5/6 cable to build all the cables you will ever need.
dave
Probably the closest you will get to Sibilus is Scott’s Pensil with Alpair 10.3. Chris lives with a set of Pensils with A10.3eN, i have listened to them quite a lot and they are very good.
Speaker wire: short and strands pulled from a CAT5/6 cable. The high end stuff is here (Ottawa since you mention Canada): https://www.takefiveaudio.com/products/907-neotech-upocc-24-awg-teflon-insulation-cryo-treated/
$1.71/unit (i guess m but it could be metres), so a 10 ft pair would be $70 CAD + taxes at most. You can ususally score enuff free scrap CAT5/6 cable to build all the cables you will ever need.
dave
the wire, well, skip it.
Speakers make a huge difference.
Your room, huge difference also.
Amplifiers, less.
Speaker wires even less.
The speaker pair's cost, I think it is reasonable.......
You have beautiful cabinets.
And you have a final project that has been tweaked in to the designer's perfection.
I would buy them if I was more financially comfortable.
But I switch between multiple speakers depending on mood, volume levels, distance to speakers, types of music, etc.
Can anyone in United States make some flat packs for some pencils for the 10.3 ?
Maybe kick $10 over to planet10 for the "free" design...............
Many of us like to play with this stuff, but we need a box.
And we are uninclined, unable, unwilling, unhaving the tools / experience / place to make boxes...............
I think in a video Harley even recommends others to build something.
I believe much of his "baby" was influenced here.
So good on him for selling speakers !!!!!!!!!!
Speakers make a huge difference.
Your room, huge difference also.
Amplifiers, less.
Speaker wires even less.
The speaker pair's cost, I think it is reasonable.......
You have beautiful cabinets.
And you have a final project that has been tweaked in to the designer's perfection.
I would buy them if I was more financially comfortable.
But I switch between multiple speakers depending on mood, volume levels, distance to speakers, types of music, etc.
Can anyone in United States make some flat packs for some pencils for the 10.3 ?
Maybe kick $10 over to planet10 for the "free" design...............
Many of us like to play with this stuff, but we need a box.
And we are uninclined, unable, unwilling, unhaving the tools / experience / place to make boxes...............
I think in a video Harley even recommends others to build something.
I believe much of his "baby" was influenced here.
So good on him for selling speakers !!!!!!!!!!
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ty.
https://www.bigwoodstudio.net/
I think I see assembled pencil box for the 11 out of baltic birch (but different ply cause BB is unavailable) for $750..................
https://www.bigwoodstudio.net/collections/speaker-kits/products/pens
https://www.bigwoodstudio.net/
I think I see assembled pencil box for the 11 out of baltic birch (but different ply cause BB is unavailable) for $750..................
https://www.bigwoodstudio.net/collections/speaker-kits/products/pens
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If a person is making 10m runs, the cable resistance can begin to make small differences in response. However there's no reason to panic. Whether it's better before or after depends on that response, not the wire itself. It could just as easily be equalised.
Absolutely. Back around 2000, there was a short-lived fad in the wideband community for using single strands of 30ga magnet wire for each nominal leg of speaker wire. A 20ft loop length put ~2ohms series R in circuit -potentially useful with low Q drivers, especially if the output impedance of the amplifier was lower than they were designed to be used with. Not exactly what you'd call a high current rating though, so you could end up with a slightly unusual set of conditions where the series R had re-balanced the LF & to a point the HF, but for want of a better phrase, larger LF dynamic peaks appeared to get 'clipped' (scientific terminology here ) / compressed vis-a-vis the midband / top end which could make unsuspecting souls (victims?) believe the latter had suddenly improved. It could get a mite warm too. Fostex pulled a variation of that one in '01 when they brought a set of 208ESigma horns to a show with Accuphase solid state amps and a set of wires made from tungsten.
) / compressed vis-a-vis the midband / top end which could make unsuspecting souls (victims?) believe the latter had suddenly improved. It could get a mite warm too. Fostex pulled a variation of that one in '01 when they brought a set of 208ESigma horns to a show with Accuphase solid state amps and a set of wires made from tungsten.