jksmurf said:
Yeah but look at the shipping costs!
I'd go for the tentlabs shunt, especially for analogue supplies. I've read several opinions that shunt regs really go into their own for feeding analogue bits (op-amps, etc.). I think it's more to do with impedance issues than ultra-low noise, with dynamics being cited as the main improvement.
...and Guido Tent really knows what he's doing.
Actually if you're reading this Ray, did you ever try your Tents?
Oh and happy new year you lot (been away).
Glenn
Glenn2 said:
Happy New Year Glenn!
That €27 is also sans-vat. So they're fairly cheap but not very. I do like that they included graphs to show noise.
I actually found good gains in dynamics with Brent's jobbies. I really hope someone else tries them, but I accept they're not the cheapest (but they are well specced and can give up to 8 amps!) Maybe Brent can work out a cheaper price for us forum users if he orders a larger batch next time.
I've been reading some of the stuff on acoustica.org.uk and they used ALW's super regs in the Naim CD3.5 with apparently stunning results. I think generally, wherever they come from, great regs are needed for the best results. And as those graphs show, even a good reg will get into trouble driving a difficult load, so we clearly need multiple regs to get the best results. We need to spend about £1million, hehe
Ok, back to sleep/work now.
Simon
Cheers Simon.
Out of interest, are Brent's series or shunt regs?
Whilst we are on the subject, I had a eureka moment recently when I tried pre-regulating my DAC 5V regs. I have 4 (digital, inverter, ana L, ana R).
First I should point out that this was done on a 67SE...
I used an LM317 set to 8.2V (I meant 8V but I cocked it up
).
Then fed the DAC regs from that.
Then stayed up very late listening to loads of CDs!
The frequency extremes were improved by a surprising amount, but especially the bass, which seemed to go much deeper and and carve out a tune rather than a tuneless thud.
It makes my stand-mounters sound like floor-standers, and on some tracks you seem to feel it rather than hear it... but it doesn't get tiresome because it's so quick and tight.
I disconnected the pre-reg to make sure I wasn't imagining things and I definitely wasn't. 2nd time I left the analogue feeds without the pre-reg and I can confirm it's the digital feeds that give the improvement, though I can't say which one benefits most (both already LM317). I'm probably just hearing a reduction in LF jitter.
Oh, and this is all with a Tent XO2 and XO supply.
Out of interest, are Brent's series or shunt regs?
Whilst we are on the subject, I had a eureka moment recently when I tried pre-regulating my DAC 5V regs. I have 4 (digital, inverter, ana L, ana R).
First I should point out that this was done on a 67SE...
I used an LM317 set to 8.2V (I meant 8V but I cocked it up
).Then fed the DAC regs from that.
Then stayed up very late listening to loads of CDs!
The frequency extremes were improved by a surprising amount, but especially the bass, which seemed to go much deeper and and carve out a tune rather than a tuneless thud.
It makes my stand-mounters sound like floor-standers, and on some tracks you seem to feel it rather than hear it... but it doesn't get tiresome because it's so quick and tight.
I disconnected the pre-reg to make sure I wasn't imagining things and I definitely wasn't. 2nd time I left the analogue feeds without the pre-reg and I can confirm it's the digital feeds that give the improvement, though I can't say which one benefits most (both already LM317). I'm probably just hearing a reduction in LF jitter.
Oh, and this is all with a Tent XO2 and XO supply.
Wow, that's fascinating stuff Glenn. I haven't tried pre-regulating anything...yet! I need to do the servo regs first, that's a definate priotity for me. Also want to separate analogue and digital right back to separate transformers (it's just separate regs at the moment).
I have some regs that are equivalent to LM317 I could use as pre-regs.... Is it ok to mount pre-regs some distance from the regs you're feeding? I'm thinking the external psu here.
Cheers,
Simon
I have some regs that are equivalent to LM317 I could use as pre-regs.... Is it ok to mount pre-regs some distance from the regs you're feeding? I'm thinking the external psu here.
Cheers,
Simon
SimontY said:
I really think the benefit I got was from isolating the DAC digital supplies from the noise on the input to their 5V regs (possibly from servo currents). If you're going down the route of separate transformers then the gains in doing this may be small.
I just built it similar to this by ALW but instead of the output pin going through a hole, I had an output wire joining my other 5V regs input wires. The input wire to the pre-reg came from a jumper that feeds the original 7805 for DAC etc. The two ground 'feet' (note one is the adjust pin ground) just soldered to the ground plane. I stuck it in a gap behind the original 7805.
But remember this is a 67SE not a 63 so there may not be room.
Incidentally, I modded a 63 about 4 years ago and I got a similar result to this when I regulated the servo amps. (They are already regulated on the 67.) I used LM317/337 to 7.75V I think. They only need to produce +5V/-5V. I really noticed the difference in the bass at low volumes. I was fixing an Arcam CD player for a mate at the time, and the bass was much tighter on the Arcam (TDA1541A-based) but not after this mod. The mids were better on the 63 anyway and it now had the edge.
After reading Andy Weekes' notes on pre-regulating the DAC clock inverter on a 63, he seemed to think it was the LF spikes he could see on the 'scope from the servo currents - they were much reduced after the pre-reg was added. I didn't read this until after I regulated the servos or I might have done that instead. I think my way may have just tackled this at the source, whereas his way stopped it getting into the DAC.
6h5c said:
The Tents are waiting to be mounted on my output stage PCB, and fitted in my SA8400. I actually was about to order some of those NewClassD thingies. Good price and always looking for new things to try. But >30 euro's for shipping...
Ray
Cool Ray - be VERY interested in how they sound. Maybe you could try 78xx/79xx first so you can compare...
poynton said:
OK, I went shopping last night, felt like a right geek wandering around with me little tray with no clue what I was buying ... got all the LM317/LM337 3 pin adj regs.
1. Shop didn't have BD139/140 transistors (Referrring to Post http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1099238#post1099238) but said BD137/138 was just as good (60V rather than 80V) so I got those. They OK too?
2. Couldn't find any SMALL 115V/115V~ 15V/15V Amveco Sealed Tx's or similar for my clock PSU :-(
3. He didn't have any 1N4002 diodes ... but said 1N4004 would work just as well, so got those? Got the 0.5W 10V Zeners though. They are tiny.
4. I relented and bought some STD Black Gate caps (not cheap are they!). I got 4# 220/16V and 5# 470u/16V.
Now, given that wifey has changed almost all the caps with Panasonic or ELNA (as per Rays orig list for the CD67SE) except for :
- C651~c654 (which I understand will not need to change of I do the HDASM bypass) and
- The OPAMP Caps C611~C614 (as these are already Elna Cerafine 100u/25V)
- CCD15 and CD16 (But I'm told to put 5V Regs where CD04 and CD07 used to be so no point changing those, but then they would go to C05 and C06, which my wife put Elna RJH into already).
So.... where would you recommend I put these BG caps? Do I still need to decouple these with 100n PPS?
5. For Ray: Is an ELNA Cerafine 1000u/35V cap OK for that Power Supply Board you gave me the layout for? I got a BG Standard for the 47u/25V cap, that is OK I think (couldn't find any other brand that size actually).
6. The C126 Cap Swap: Does this need to be a VERY good cap? Can I use one of the caps I removed from the CD67SE, say IF I swap out the Elna Cerafine 100u/25V from the Opamps and put the BG Std 220u/16V there, could I take one of those 4 and stick it on the transport PCB at C126?
67SE 110V + 240/100 NoNameTx soldered Out, 240 67SE installed and working!, thanks to the wife.
k.
coax
HI All,
I'm a bit lost in this huge amount of data and the worst is that I do not have the knowledge to understand most of the information.I have a cd57and what I've done so far are the following:
1.caps swap /used Elna starget bypassed with 100n poly caps
2.replaced resistors with coils and ferits where needed.
3.replaced diodes with schotky diodes
4.replaced opamps with AD827 decoupled with 3uf cap between
feet No4 and No8
5.Rf decoupling of ICs with coper foil soldered to the nearest
ground point also grounded the crystal
6.clock hack as per acoustica instructions
7.soldered tiny BC multi caps 0,1uf at the feet of the dac pins
No24 to 26 and 24 to 22 and 21 to 19 and 19 to17 and 16 to
15
8.changed cd05 with a 220uf starget cap and used LM317 to
directly feed this cap
9.Disabled headphones
10.removed output caps
11.removed muting transistors.
Hope did not forget anything.The sound has changed a lot.
I asume feeding cd05 with the added lm317 regulator we feed pin No27 which is the analog stage of the dac.Do we also feed the crystal by this?
I want to make the coax mod now.Could someone advise which
are the pins of the dac/decoder to be connected and what has to be desoldered ?
Hope this is understandable.
Thanks in advance
HI All,
I'm a bit lost in this huge amount of data and the worst is that I do not have the knowledge to understand most of the information.I have a cd57and what I've done so far are the following:
1.caps swap /used Elna starget bypassed with 100n poly caps
2.replaced resistors with coils and ferits where needed.
3.replaced diodes with schotky diodes
4.replaced opamps with AD827 decoupled with 3uf cap between
feet No4 and No8
5.Rf decoupling of ICs with coper foil soldered to the nearest
ground point also grounded the crystal
6.clock hack as per acoustica instructions
7.soldered tiny BC multi caps 0,1uf at the feet of the dac pins
No24 to 26 and 24 to 22 and 21 to 19 and 19 to17 and 16 to
15
8.changed cd05 with a 220uf starget cap and used LM317 to
directly feed this cap
9.Disabled headphones
10.removed output caps
11.removed muting transistors.
Hope did not forget anything.The sound has changed a lot.
I asume feeding cd05 with the added lm317 regulator we feed pin No27 which is the analog stage of the dac.Do we also feed the crystal by this?
I want to make the coax mod now.Could someone advise which
are the pins of the dac/decoder to be connected and what has to be desoldered ?
Hope this is understandable.
Thanks in advance
I found this diagram from around the 2000 mark of this thread. I would like to try building them for separate power supplies to critical circuits which I'll ask about later.
I've added some ID's for capacitors and I would like to ask some questions.
1) What is an affordable alternative to the 7805 regs which give good performance?
2) I'm planning on using Black Gate caps. What values can I use for C1,C2,C3 & C4? For C1 & C2, 330 or 470 uF would be preferrable.
3) Can I use 16V caps or does that depend on where I get the power source from?
4) What do C3 & C4 do?
Thanks,
Simon
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I've added some ID's for capacitors and I would like to ask some questions.
1) What is an affordable alternative to the 7805 regs which give good performance?
2) I'm planning on using Black Gate caps. What values can I use for C1,C2,C3 & C4? For C1 & C2, 330 or 470 uF would be preferrable.
3) Can I use 16V caps or does that depend on where I get the power source from?
4) What do C3 & C4 do?
Thanks,
Simon
Re: coax
Ok, some quick answers, cuz my dinner's almost ready...
Yes to both.
BG's to C611...614, they beat the Cerafines! And to all of the DAC PSU pins (CD15/16, CD04/07). You don't need the extra PPS.
Perfect, will do nicely.
Yes, you could do that. But a nice low-ESR cap like Pana FC or Ruby ZL/ZA is better in that position. Or a BG.
That's a nice list of mods! Pin 27/CD05 is the digital clock supply of the DAC. So you are already feeding the crystal. The more separate regulators the better. You can replace the PCB trace that runs from junction CD01/RD14 near the DAC to junction R104/pin21 of the decoder by coax, it's the MCLK signal. Make sure you connect it to the right pin, because Marantz screwed up and used pin 22 as clock input 
.
Regards,
Ray
Ok, some quick answers, cuz my dinner's almost ready...
Yes to both.
BG's to C611...614, they beat the Cerafines! And to all of the DAC PSU pins (CD15/16, CD04/07). You don't need the extra PPS.
Perfect, will do nicely.
Yes, you could do that. But a nice low-ESR cap like Pana FC or Ruby ZL/ZA is better in that position. Or a BG
.That's a nice list of mods! Pin 27/CD05 is the digital clock supply of the DAC. So you are already feeding the crystal
. The more separate regulators the better. You can replace the PCB trace that runs from junction CD01/RD14 near the DAC to junction R104/pin21 of the decoder by coax, it's the MCLK signal. Make sure you connect it to the right pin, because Marantz screwed up and used pin 22 as clock input .Regards,
Ray
Hi guys,
I hope it's not too far from the main topic, but I need advices for my Flea's power supply.
First the TX, it's a 2x 9V so it's 18V, but I'm not sure about the way I should connect it. I draw the way I think it is on the pic. It's 2VA, I think far enough for the Flea. I've a bigger one, and maybe can have more orange ones if some want one also, just tell me.
Second, bridge rectifier: is the best using the same as the schottky ones from the CDP (I've some left), or the Semikron integrated one is ok?
http://www.semikron.com/internet/ds.jsp?file=626.html
It's the SKB 2/04L5A.
Then comes the cap... I've many from many brand new PSU my company... just don't want anymore...
I've some good ones as in my CDP : Rubycon ZL 1200u/35V and one Elna RJH 470u/25V. And all the ones in the pic...
After It should be ok for the Flea PSU??
Voilà, if needed I try my first topic in PFM forums...
Thanks!!
I hope it's not too far from the main topic, but I need advices for my Flea's power supply.
First the TX, it's a 2x 9V so it's 18V, but I'm not sure about the way I should connect it. I draw the way I think it is on the pic. It's 2VA, I think far enough for the Flea. I've a bigger one, and maybe can have more orange ones if some want one also, just tell me.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Second, bridge rectifier: is the best using the same as the schottky ones from the CDP (I've some left), or the Semikron integrated one is ok?
http://www.semikron.com/internet/ds.jsp?file=626.html
It's the SKB 2/04L5A.
Then comes the cap... I've many from many brand new PSU my company... just don't want anymore...
I've some good ones as in my CDP : Rubycon ZL 1200u/35V and one Elna RJH 470u/25V. And all the ones in the pic...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
After It should be ok for the Flea PSU??
Voilà, if needed I try my first topic in PFM forums...
Thanks!!
adfinni said:
Hehe ye very uncanny. i would love to try your s-power regs, but are well out of my price range atm, as im using my xmas money to get my grado's woddied up in zebrawood and recabled
Glad to help, you've certainly helped me through enough installations and problems. Plus il hopefully be sending you my player for modding sometime as im scared of kiling this one, especially with the servo mod, and coax mods (like i did before). Plus im sure il want some tx's to power my regs, replace the I-E tranny, and replace my clock PSU atm.
Id much rather pay a professional to do it.
sorry for the late reply. we have loads in at the mo at work. I look forward to any cdp i can improve.
Just spent today upgrading a NAIM NAC 32.5 pre amp up to NAC 82 standards. The customer already had his cd63 KI upgraded using an upgraded (by me) Naim SNAPS psu. He said it blew his Naim cdp (£1200) of the same age away LOL.
Brent
Glenn2 said:Cheers Simon.
Out of interest, are Brent's series or shunt regs?
Whilst we are on the subject, I had a eureka moment recently when I tried pre-regulating my DAC 5V regs. I have 4 (digital, inverter, ana L, ana R).
First I should point out that this was done on a 67SE...
I used an LM317 set to 8.2V (I meant 8V but I cocked it up
Then fed the DAC regs from that.
Then stayed up very late listening to loads of CDs!
The frequency extremes were improved by a surprising amount, but especially the bass, which seemed to go much deeper and and carve out a tune rather than a tuneless thud.
It makes my stand-mounters sound like floor-standers, and on some tracks you seem to feel it rather than hear it... but it doesn't get tiresome because it's so quick and tight.
I disconnected the pre-reg to make sure I wasn't imagining things and I definitely wasn't. 2nd time I left the analogue feeds without the pre-reg and I can confirm it's the digital feeds that give the improvement, though I can't say which one benefits most (both already LM317). I'm probably just hearing a reduction in LF jitter.
Oh, and this is all with a Tent XO2 and XO supply.
I run my 5v regs from seperate supplies but in a lot of other mods (my clock)(and work upgrades) i use a pre reg with good MMK caps) and the sound defo improves.egs
For the drive/output my regs have a FET , this is controlled by a low noise op amp and this takes its reference from an very low noise Vref ic.
Brent
Glenn2 said:
I have to disagree . sorry!. Yes isolating all the dac and decoder supplies makes a huge diff. But giving them their own tx and regulation pushes it even further, more dynamics and smoother audio are the first things you notice with better resonance in the bass of natural instruments etc
Brent
YoungSC said:
1) To be honest the best way you can upgrade your voltage rail is to buy a good low noise reg (im not saying this because my company now sells them) they really do make the difference between good audio and top grade audio.
Now if this type of regulator is out of your budget range then RAYs Raygulators are by far better than any off the shelf regulator.
2) I would use 16V 100uf BG for C1 tops (if you have some spare silmic 200uF for free i would use these) for C2 i would use 16V 470uF BG as the norm to dac etc REMEMBER C2 needs to be close to the circuit the voltageis feedingfor optimum performance.
3)16V caps can be used on 12 and 5V rails
4)You only need one cap (usually) but these filter out high freq noises on the power rails
Brent