Btw, what will the XO cost?
Gotta find the total cost and sell my current setup and work for money. This wont be cheap!
Gotta find the total cost and sell my current setup and work for money. This wont be cheap!
A whole nuther can of worms. If you are going passive, then a higher XO is required. If you can find a $5-30 vintage amp or receiever (or similar) at the thrify shops, a garage sale, or hiding in someone's closet, that would make life a whole lot easier, XO wise.
dave
Rullknufs - y'all been all over the map since your first post ( was it in March?), and lots of good advice has been offered along the way.
Given that I think this your first DIY speaker project, it's time to try and decide exactly what direction you'd like to take. Remember that it's always easy to start small and add to the complexity of the system later.
Given that I think this your first DIY speaker project, it's time to try and decide exactly what direction you'd like to take. Remember that it's always easy to start small and add to the complexity of the system later.
Well, i have decided for CSS Trio8 + CSS EL70 IF(!) i will only need one sheet of ply and the XO will be cheaper.
Is it okay with any amplifier/reciever of any brand/quality/age? Is it okay if it's broken/wont work?
In that case i could find something, i hope.
But if i can't, what do i have to do then?
Is it okay with any amplifier/reciever of any brand/quality/age? Is it okay if it's broken/wont work?
In that case i could find something, i hope.
But if i can't, what do i have to do then?
The idea is to have something that can be used as a woofer amplifier. A PLLXO is way easier & cheaper than a passive XO after the amplifier.
If done with a passive XO, the XO becomes the hardest part of the box.
dave
So... I can't use an ordinary stereoreciever for the XO? I need a 5.1 reciever with sub-out, or?
And what is PLLXO?
And how much will a passive XO cost?
How will i use the active XO?
And what is PLLXO?
And how much will a passive XO cost?
How will i use the active XO?
PLLXO
To bi-amp you need 4 amplifiers, and you need to be able to send each stereo pair a different signal -- being able to get at the pre-amp outputs is also useful... If you XO low enuff the sub-out from an AV receiver can be used, althou a slightly higher stereo XO would give more loudness capability. If you are using the sub-out to drive the woofers you already have to have amplifier(s) to drive the subs (most often part of the plate amp)
A passive XO as low as we are talking requires VERY large inductors & capacitors, which can cost a lot of money. And given the vagarities of passive XO design, you may end up buying multiple sets of parts before getting it right (ie XO could cost more than the EL70s)
Taking a cue from Chris, you may want to think about going slower. You already have a subwoofer. Why not just start with EL70, put them into a more verstaile box (like the Mar-Kel70) and just use the woofer you have for now. Gives you time to earn money, learn about XOs and other stuff, and gives you time to get lucky at getting bits & bobs needed at pennies on the dollar, or to learn enuff to build your own amplifiers. Then build complementary woofers to replace your current sub.
dave
To bi-amp you need 4 amplifiers, and you need to be able to send each stereo pair a different signal -- being able to get at the pre-amp outputs is also useful... If you XO low enuff the sub-out from an AV receiver can be used, althou a slightly higher stereo XO would give more loudness capability. If you are using the sub-out to drive the woofers you already have to have amplifier(s) to drive the subs (most often part of the plate amp)
A passive XO as low as we are talking requires VERY large inductors & capacitors, which can cost a lot of money. And given the vagarities of passive XO design, you may end up buying multiple sets of parts before getting it right (ie XO could cost more than the EL70s)
Taking a cue from Chris, you may want to think about going slower. You already have a subwoofer. Why not just start with EL70, put them into a more verstaile box (like the Mar-Kel70) and just use the woofer you have for now. Gives you time to earn money, learn about XOs and other stuff, and gives you time to get lucky at getting bits & bobs needed at pennies on the dollar, or to learn enuff to build your own amplifiers. Then build complementary woofers to replace your current sub.
dave
Uhm, i will only use one amplifier. But right now i do got 4 speaker outputs (as long as no speaker is below 8 ohm).
I am using sub-out right now to power my active XTZ 99 w8.16
What XO freq do you recommend?
Yes i do have a subwoofer but it's low-quality stuff. It costs around 200$ new.
And i'm afraid, if i build with just an EL70 that i will lack lots of mid/highbass. I have a feeling that this little 4"(right?) driver wont produce what i want. For an example, i have 4 6.5" and 1 8" sub and four 5.25" for midrange. I'd bet two 4" and 1 8" wont sound as good. I know, my speakers now are quite low-quality aswell. But they're extremely good for their price - 310$.
I have nothing against building a cheaper speaker first and then waiting till i get more money. I'm just afraid that i wont be satisfied with what i build. If i just could have both my current speakers and the ones i build, if i build cheaper ones... Shouldn't be impossible hey!
Gonna check the Mar-Kel.
Edit: Where will the woofer fit in this small Mar-Kel?
And i want a floorstander.
Or maybe i could use modules?
I am using sub-out right now to power my active XTZ 99 w8.16
What XO freq do you recommend?
Yes i do have a subwoofer but it's low-quality stuff. It costs around 200$ new.
And i'm afraid, if i build with just an EL70 that i will lack lots of mid/highbass. I have a feeling that this little 4"(right?) driver wont produce what i want. For an example, i have 4 6.5" and 1 8" sub and four 5.25" for midrange. I'd bet two 4" and 1 8" wont sound as good. I know, my speakers now are quite low-quality aswell. But they're extremely good for their price - 310$.
I have nothing against building a cheaper speaker first and then waiting till i get more money. I'm just afraid that i wont be satisfied with what i build. If i just could have both my current speakers and the ones i build, if i build cheaper ones... Shouldn't be impossible hey!
Gonna check the Mar-Kel.
Edit: Where will the woofer fit in this small Mar-Kel?
And i want a floorstander.
Or maybe i could use modules?
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Modules yes. Similar to these.
And you will be surprised by the EL70s bass performance... i was. One fellow in California built EL70 bipole metronomes for his home theatre and removed his subwoofer.
dave
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And you will be surprised by the EL70s bass performance... i was. One fellow in California built EL70 bipole metronomes for his home theatre and removed his subwoofer.
dave
That didn't look good, different colors of the wood :S
But yes it's a good idea, but how to make the top-part sit steady on the sub-part?
But yes it's a good idea, but how to make the top-part sit steady on the sub-part?
These were among a series of prototypes built months or possible years apart, ( IIRC, the upper Fostex boxes were clear coat lacquered while the lower cabinets are still raw) easily veneered or painted in matching or complementary finishes in an afternoon or so. The vertical strip on the bass enclosures was to correct for a cutting error on chamfered edges.
I think Dave's point was to consider the advantages of incremental steps for a beginner with an apparently limited budget, as well as existing gear that could be used to advantage.
While "just" and EL or CHR 70 will certainly lack massive weight and extension in the lowest 2 octaves, particularly for full-impact home theater or party level club music, don't underestimate their capacity from midbass ( 100/120 so ) on up, With proper relief of even a lower quality woofer (likely independently filtered & powered), either of these drivers can raise eyebrows.
As for stability of the upper enclosure - either metal straps ("mending plates") or Blu-tak (a staple of any audio DIYer's kit) should suffice to affix to the lower enclosure.
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Ahh okay.
Yes, making it in steps is almost always a good idea. Like starting with 2.0, then 5.0, then 5.1 then 7.1 and so on.
I'll probably go with EL70 since i suppose it's a little better than CHR-70 since it costs a little more.
But, what about 80-100hz then?
And i like to play relatively loud. With windows and all doors shut you can hear it on the street 10m from my house (my room is close to the street). You can't hear it loud and clear, but you can hear what i am listening to.
Edit: Did you mean this? http://www.joma.se/viewimg.php?image_id=3&thumb=1&/H%E5lband-20.jpg
And with Blue-Tack, wont it leave a little colored spot after it on the surface?
Yes, making it in steps is almost always a good idea. Like starting with 2.0, then 5.0, then 5.1 then 7.1 and so on.
I'll probably go with EL70 since i suppose it's a little better than CHR-70 since it costs a little more.
But, what about 80-100hz then?
And i like to play relatively loud. With windows and all doors shut you can hear it on the street 10m from my house (my room is close to the street). You can't hear it loud and clear, but you can hear what i am listening to.
Edit: Did you mean this? http://www.joma.se/viewimg.php?image_id=3&thumb=1&/H%E5lband-20.jpg
And with Blue-Tack, wont it leave a little colored spot after it on the surface?
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It is the concept you want, not the specific execution... althou these would house a Trio8 each (they could be a bit smaller actually) or any number of other midbasses. As built they aren't really material efficient.
dave
dave
Some guys on a swedish forum told me to step away from Trio8 in a 2-way construction. Are they right?
When you say 2-way, most will think 2-4kHz XO. Trio8 certainly not good for that. But XO at 100-200 Hz it will work great.
Just tell them your tweeter can be made to go down to <100 Hz. Then watch for the incredulous faces 😀
dave
Just tell them your tweeter can be made to go down to <100 Hz. Then watch for the incredulous faces 😀
dave
because?
see above
't'aint necessarily so,
t'aint necessarily so,
the words that you're liable
to find via google,
well, they ain't necessarily so
don't confuse price and quality
that's plumbing strap, more like the attached
why would the boxes be separated?
