"My apologies for not being clear in my question, I wanted to ask about the usable upper frequency range of this design. I was looking for 160Hz, maybe higher? "
Les Hudson was able to get 400hz without too much difficulty, just keep the cavity volume low, and the depth of the cavity (we don't want it to behave like a bandpass box).
After talking to me at a trade show, EV came out with a dual 15 PPSL that they crossed to the HF horn at 800hz. I never got a chance to hear their version, but someday I may try their approach and see how much it improves the bandwidth (they tilted the slot at an angle).
EV method:
I've run 18s to 250hz, but most of the time it's 150hz or lower (so there was no need to try the EV method).
Les Hudson was able to get 400hz without too much difficulty, just keep the cavity volume low, and the depth of the cavity (we don't want it to behave like a bandpass box).
After talking to me at a trade show, EV came out with a dual 15 PPSL that they crossed to the HF horn at 800hz. I never got a chance to hear their version, but someday I may try their approach and see how much it improves the bandwidth (they tilted the slot at an angle).
EV method:
I've run 18s to 250hz, but most of the time it's 150hz or lower (so there was no need to try the EV method).
Wow DJK, that was mindblowing, the Speakers of Les Hudson are pretty nice and inspiring, also your PA is, it looks really nice and i guess it sounds also, good job.
I also had a look about the Tuba Horns and the Omnis,... nice designs too...
I concluded that i would prefer also some linearity in the frequenzy bandwidth, to get more versatile Speakers, rather than max spl in a few frequenzys and a musicstyle trimmed PA.
I see audio physics are the same as for PA as i t be for HIFI.
So the Speakers of L. Hudson really blew my mind, I remembred about directivity and frequenzy and phase problems with more than one speaker if they're clustered.
So I rememberd the goal of coaxial chassis....
I wondered if it wouldn't be better to mount the tweeter centered in the Horn??? (in the case of les hudsons box)
So finally i made out some Ideas of a horn loadad push and pull coax design.
I made out scema , not having in mind directivity nor volum etc... just brought down my idea with the text editor.
What are you guys are thinking about this, with out having in mind transportability,... XD,
First and deeply my thoughts rounding about some round horns like the box of LH, I think it would be quiet impressive to listen and see a giant 3 way pushed and pull horn.
It would be a solucion for a lot of problems, like speaker deformation at max power, what i think is a problem in squared designs, or one side vented cabs.
What do you think about my Idea? Could it be a Blaster or would it be a Laster?
I also had a look about the Tuba Horns and the Omnis,... nice designs too...
I concluded that i would prefer also some linearity in the frequenzy bandwidth, to get more versatile Speakers, rather than max spl in a few frequenzys and a musicstyle trimmed PA.
I see audio physics are the same as for PA as i t be for HIFI.
So the Speakers of L. Hudson really blew my mind, I remembred about directivity and frequenzy and phase problems with more than one speaker if they're clustered.
So I rememberd the goal of coaxial chassis....
I wondered if it wouldn't be better to mount the tweeter centered in the Horn??? (in the case of les hudsons box)
So finally i made out some Ideas of a horn loadad push and pull coax design.
I made out scema , not having in mind directivity nor volum etc... just brought down my idea with the text editor.
What are you guys are thinking about this, with out having in mind transportability,... XD,
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
First and deeply my thoughts rounding about some round horns like the box of LH, I think it would be quiet impressive to listen and see a giant 3 way pushed and pull horn.
It would be a solucion for a lot of problems, like speaker deformation at max power, what i think is a problem in squared designs, or one side vented cabs.
What do you think about my Idea? Could it be a Blaster or would it be a Laster?
Seems that link doesnt work, here it goes another way.
speaker designs :: my horn design picture by DJ-MCH - Photobucket
speaker designs :: my horn design picture by DJ-MCH - Photobucket
Well, how to put this succinctly and remain fair....
BFM designs can be made to sound passable, but you will need to do quite a bit of work with a good RTA and equaliser to get there. I have heard significantly better designs (in every context) so I would be struggling to reccomend them. The DR300 is probably the least impressive of the BFM cabinets I am familiar with, it is reasonable up to 300Hz, sounds average 300 to 1000 and is just plain offensive above that and that kinda defeats the whole purpose of the thing.
The omnis actually don't sound too bad.
The tubas, well not bad either, but there are significantly better DIY designs out there. Lab subs are phenomenal (different league), also check out Jim Bell's tapped horn as well as Screamer USA's beasty too. My experience with building tapped horns is that the design principle is pretty darn good. Half the size of Labs and not too far short of their performance. Be warned though, they are a non-trivial undertaking to roll your own and get top performance.
If you are going to use horn for mids, I would strongly discourage you from using folded (or bent) horns much higher than 300Hz. At that frequency you can make them short enough anyway.
>>>First and deeply my thoughts rounding about some round horns like the >>>box of LH,
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1924/247/5/837950463/n837950463_5410929_3204.jpg
This is part of a system I used to run up until recently
The mid bass horns coupled to labs like this kick like a demon and are super clean to listen to. The upper mids and highs (300Hz on up) are best flown, if you have them down low (with the labs) the spl you need to keep up with the bass horns will rip your head off at close range.
regards,
~c
Does a manifold design really perform better than the equivalent ported box? I figured the main advantage is that you can cram a lot more woofers in a smaller frontal area, and the drivers can be more easily protected. Total box volume has to be greater, though, since the manifold subtracts from the internal volume.
As for other alternatives, there's Speakerplans.
Does anyone have a favourite application for the Eminence Omega Pro 18 woofer? I've got 5 live and one dead, currently in ported boxes, but I'm open to giving up some low end for more punch and efficiency.
As for other alternatives, there's Speakerplans.
Does anyone have a favourite application for the Eminence Omega Pro 18 woofer? I've got 5 live and one dead, currently in ported boxes, but I'm open to giving up some low end for more punch and efficiency.
"Does a manifold design really perform better than the equivalent ported box? "
Mounting the drivers in push-pull gives a dramatic reduction in distortion, otherwise you're correct.
Mounting the drivers in push-pull gives a dramatic reduction in distortion, otherwise you're correct.
How to sim a manifold design?
I am curious to want to know more about manifold designs.
Can they be modeled as a 2 driver reflex port cabinet, or are there other performance gains from the push pull configuration (other than the reduction in distortion) that need to be concidered?🙂
I am curious to want to know more about manifold designs.
Can they be modeled as a 2 driver reflex port cabinet, or are there other performance gains from the push pull configuration (other than the reduction in distortion) that need to be concidered?🙂
In terms of modeling, I think your biggest headache is going to be predicting the high frequency cutoff. As preveiously mentioned, the chamber that the drivers fire in to acts as a low pass filter. I suspect that you will need to burn up some plywood and make some measures. I don't think it could actually be modeled.
Incidentally, it would not need to be a bass reflex. You could possibly fire them into a chamber and then fit that chamber with a throat and have a front-loaded horn. The same LP filtering could occur, however. Between the push-pull configuration and the effeiciency of horn loading, you may have a very clean (low distortion) system.
Hmm, I wonder .....
Incidentally, it would not need to be a bass reflex. You could possibly fire them into a chamber and then fit that chamber with a throat and have a front-loaded horn. The same LP filtering could occur, however. Between the push-pull configuration and the effeiciency of horn loading, you may have a very clean (low distortion) system.
Hmm, I wonder .....
Brett, Yes, that is an interesting design, and probably fairly complicated to build. I commend the designer.
1. I am not sure just how closely the two drivers are positioned from one another. It is this spacing that will dictate how high up in frequency you will get the benefits of a push-pull configuration (in terms of cancelling 2nd harmonic distortion)
2. The bandwidth is fairly limited, about two octaves and does not extend to a very high frequency. So this would limit it to functioning only as a sub (which it was designed for)
This is contrast to the system that Les Husdon had. There, HF extension was "up to 400Hz". Although I am not sure how that was specified/measured.
Having a woofer that goes up to an honest 400 Hz or so opens up a number of possibilities. Keep in mind that my bias is toward two-way horn systems. These always present so many compromises and headaches.
1. I am not sure just how closely the two drivers are positioned from one another. It is this spacing that will dictate how high up in frequency you will get the benefits of a push-pull configuration (in terms of cancelling 2nd harmonic distortion)
2. The bandwidth is fairly limited, about two octaves and does not extend to a very high frequency. So this would limit it to functioning only as a sub (which it was designed for)
This is contrast to the system that Les Husdon had. There, HF extension was "up to 400Hz". Although I am not sure how that was specified/measured.
Having a woofer that goes up to an honest 400 Hz or so opens up a number of possibilities. Keep in mind that my bias is toward two-way horn systems. These always present so many compromises and headaches.
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