Mr. Manger no longer uses side MSW. Now only bipole radiation at his home. Sound perspective was fantastic - I think best compromise between they are here and you are there. Volume was somehow low even at full power. Someone said "a sound without body". In my home I have Jordans as a reference and I'm building two way horn monsters 😉
Oh nothing special - just 2" Tractrix with 1" adapter and Peerlees HDS tweeter. For bass 38cm 105dB/1W/1m woofer from 50Hz and up in Tannoy Cunterbury enclosure or plain tube (better for acoustic centre match). Active shelving crossover and some all-pass via DSP:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1383945#post1383945
http://audiostereo.lukarnet.com/gfx/940000/948640_1.jpg
I remember ma talk with Joseph Manger as one of the most illuminating experience. We walked around garden and living room with bipole MSW with singing birds and music. He is like most of us - without any deep academic background.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1383945#post1383945
http://audiostereo.lukarnet.com/gfx/940000/948640_1.jpg
I remember ma talk with Joseph Manger as one of the most illuminating experience. We walked around garden and living room with bipole MSW with singing birds and music. He is like most of us - without any deep academic background.
originally posted by ScottG
Interestingly enough Mangers original enclosure design around this problem was to use not ONE Manger driver (or even two), but THREE drivers. The claim in the literature was primarly enclosure pressurization related - to relieve back pressure on the front driver while creating more "uniform" reflections that would will hit the back of it. Then I think they attributed improved edge diffraction. I wouldn't dispute either, but in my opinon the real reason was:
1. Off-axis dispersion.
2. Selling a lot more Mangers
very good in an egg shaped box you do not need them
ind a box as they are cut off quite drastic Jordans will do
6moons are looking good and for gods sake id could be done in
fiberglass or even veneer.
Interestingly enough Mangers original enclosure design around this problem was to use not ONE Manger driver (or even two), but THREE drivers. The claim in the literature was primarly enclosure pressurization related - to relieve back pressure on the front driver while creating more "uniform" reflections that would will hit the back of it. Then I think they attributed improved edge diffraction. I wouldn't dispute either, but in my opinon the real reason was:
1. Off-axis dispersion.
2. Selling a lot more Mangers
very good in an egg shaped box you do not need them
ind a box as they are cut off quite drastic Jordans will do
6moons are looking good and for gods sake id could be done in
fiberglass or even veneer.
Hi
digging around
found this
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64139&highlight=
going down
Hi Doug,
snipp........
For even better a bargain 2 of these (per side) will set you back about the same http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...onics&n=507846.
A large baffle is a must (see pic). The PE has a nice rising response that you might be able to get away without any EQ. for "woofer" bass.
Good luck building.
cheers,
AJ
..................
i'm ashamed, as I do know nothing about them
but it sounds to good to be true
the bass open baffle would be combined witn a Manger in a a round dish
active simple x over D class Amp
I do hate do have huge heavz bass bins as it has to be tranportbel
moved 15 times in less than 50 years and moving at end of year
that will be my big sytem, small sytem fonken
What wil the gurus advice me about opne baffle bass ????
kenn to lern and get any information
but open Baffel Bass and a Manger in a round dish sounds very attractive to me
Rose
digging around
found this
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64139&highlight=
going down
Hi Doug,
snipp........
For even better a bargain 2 of these (per side) will set you back about the same http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...onics&n=507846.
A large baffle is a must (see pic). The PE has a nice rising response that you might be able to get away without any EQ. for "woofer" bass.
Good luck building.
cheers,
AJ
..................
i'm ashamed, as I do know nothing about them
but it sounds to good to be true
the bass open baffle would be combined witn a Manger in a a round dish
active simple x over D class Amp
I do hate do have huge heavz bass bins as it has to be tranportbel
moved 15 times in less than 50 years and moving at end of year
that will be my big sytem, small sytem fonken
What wil the gurus advice me about opne baffle bass ????
kenn to lern and get any information
but open Baffel Bass and a Manger in a round dish sounds very attractive to me
Rose
it is a very good combination if you can live with restricted maximum sound pressure level. I build this combination with 12" speakers and active filter and crossover at 120Hz some years ago at a round plate and later mounted on rectangular plate with better time & frequency response.
Murphy
régine's said:
So, a bipole would be the best enclosure for there drivers?
Am I correct?
Now, has the box be closed or open like the Emerald cs1?
jzagaja said:
I think this answers my previous question, except the enclosure type.
On second (and cheaper) choice, a damped U-frame may be still viable I guess, for 90ish SPL. Right?
Telstar said:
With a 120 Hz crossover, I think you'll want to have something on
the order of 3' width, and you can expect it to start declining just below
200 Hz.
😎
Nelson Pass said:
Thanks, Nelson.
I think that the Manger shouldnt go as low anyway. While they do such in the Swings (with very special enclosure and damping), Overkill (who makes highend commercial speakers) prefers to cut as high as 400hz (which would defy the all purpose of a FR driver to me 🙁 ).
I have a pair of boxed speakers which are cut exactly at 400hz and I cannot stand a crossover point so high. For one thing, it makes impossible to biamp with different amplifiers. etc etc.
It's a pity, but probably is not the right driver for me. Unless more feedback proves otherwise.
Two Way full range con Manger
Manger
======
After years of waiting, I have not found a unit that can compete with the Manager: ie a driver than can happily play 200Hz - 20Khz.
Interference
=========
In my previous attempt to make the perfect 2 way, I found that when high levels of bass energy (15" cone with xmax of 33mm) were produced next to Mangers (which were in sealed sphere), the Mangers diaphragm moved.
I have never heard of anyone publishing research on this before?
With only 3.5mm xmax in the Manger, I was finding that I had to raise the crossover frequency up at high volume levels, to keep the mangers sounding ok; I now believe this was the bass energy taking the Manger out of its xmax.
Open baffle Manger
===============
So the big question for me was.... how could I use the manger without it being effected by Bass energy from a woofer sitting right next to it?
My solution is to ensure that the bass wavefront hits the front and reverse sides of the Manger diaphragm at the same time. This would mean NO enclose for the the Manger. The manger would need to sit in the Null field of the Bass.
With even less LF response from the Manger part of the loudspeaker, the bass units would have to play to higher frequencies with high fidelity.
Open Baffle bass?
==============
A boxed bass unit introduces compromises (stored energy, resonances) but is more efficient. Open baffle woofers have less colourations, but you have to move Huge amount of air (need lots of power)
After listening to a few open baffle bass systems - I am a convert.
Celestion RS6000s used 2 open baffle woofers (looked like an egg cut in half, and each half moved 1cm apart). Each woofer was massive, heavy, and could not work at a High frequency.
The second issue (and I don't really know how much of an issue this is!), was the woofers were both pumping forward and backward at the same time. Any difference in the forward / backward stroke would introduce a skewed response.
Turning one of them around would reduce the second (or is it third) order harmonic distortion, but would also cause the rig to vibrate, and the radiation pattern to different.
Either way ..... if the Manger hung between the bass units ... it would sit in an acoustic null.
2nd order harmonic distortion
===================
My design - see attachment is to use 6 bass units that all fire inwards.
3 units face out, 3 face in.
There is no LF resultant rocking (which so the manger would be fixed in position)
There is 6 times the air movement of 1 bass unit (more volume level at LF)
The non-linearities of the xmax should be greatly reduced (opposing bass units push & pull air into the centre)
The Manger will sit in an acoustic Null.
There is no stored energy (no box).
Each pair of bass units could use Kef-107 style rods between the bolt holds of opposing units.
Bass units
======
So in my quest to find a fuller range HF unit, I have come full circle.
The problem now was to find a bass unit that could:
+) move a large amount of air - xmax
+) Have an even response
+) Have a high breakup (Cross over around 400Hz, bass unit should be clean to >1 khz)
+) Have a low fs as possible
+) Have a reasonable efficiency
+) Have low distortion
+) How low compression at high power.
I narrowed down the list of Bass units to Exodus Audio(XBL2), Aurasound, Audiopulse(LMS), Acoustic Eminence
After about 300 hours of reading, and various communique with most of the companies, I chose the Acoustic Eminence AV15H.
http://aespeakers.com/shop/catalog/...id=67&osCsid=4e7e29531ed3ec6ea38bd5b3c1ab84d5
I'm sure everyone has their own ideas about what is the most important criteria is. I included Le minimisation in the mix.
Frequency response / HF delay
===================
I will be using a Behringer DCX to delay the HF, and to equalise the LF response.
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DCX2496.aspx
Power for each speaker
===============
1 x Wyred4sound SX-1000 for the Manger
3 x SX-1000 (each opposing pair wired in series gets a power amp).
The SX-1000 are Class-D, Idle 15watts, good sound quality (I hope!), and capable of very high power output.
http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/...view.html?pid=332075&b_id=&find_groupid=18046
Build
===
Just awaiting for all the components to turn up.
Have pity on my neighbours!
Tuckshop
Manger
======
After years of waiting, I have not found a unit that can compete with the Manager: ie a driver than can happily play 200Hz - 20Khz.
Interference
=========
In my previous attempt to make the perfect 2 way, I found that when high levels of bass energy (15" cone with xmax of 33mm) were produced next to Mangers (which were in sealed sphere), the Mangers diaphragm moved.
I have never heard of anyone publishing research on this before?
With only 3.5mm xmax in the Manger, I was finding that I had to raise the crossover frequency up at high volume levels, to keep the mangers sounding ok; I now believe this was the bass energy taking the Manger out of its xmax.
Open baffle Manger
===============
So the big question for me was.... how could I use the manger without it being effected by Bass energy from a woofer sitting right next to it?
My solution is to ensure that the bass wavefront hits the front and reverse sides of the Manger diaphragm at the same time. This would mean NO enclose for the the Manger. The manger would need to sit in the Null field of the Bass.
With even less LF response from the Manger part of the loudspeaker, the bass units would have to play to higher frequencies with high fidelity.
Open Baffle bass?
==============
A boxed bass unit introduces compromises (stored energy, resonances) but is more efficient. Open baffle woofers have less colourations, but you have to move Huge amount of air (need lots of power)
After listening to a few open baffle bass systems - I am a convert.
Celestion RS6000s used 2 open baffle woofers (looked like an egg cut in half, and each half moved 1cm apart). Each woofer was massive, heavy, and could not work at a High frequency.
The second issue (and I don't really know how much of an issue this is!), was the woofers were both pumping forward and backward at the same time. Any difference in the forward / backward stroke would introduce a skewed response.
Turning one of them around would reduce the second (or is it third) order harmonic distortion, but would also cause the rig to vibrate, and the radiation pattern to different.
Either way ..... if the Manger hung between the bass units ... it would sit in an acoustic null.
2nd order harmonic distortion
===================
My design - see attachment is to use 6 bass units that all fire inwards.
3 units face out, 3 face in.
There is no LF resultant rocking (which so the manger would be fixed in position)
There is 6 times the air movement of 1 bass unit (more volume level at LF)
The non-linearities of the xmax should be greatly reduced (opposing bass units push & pull air into the centre)
The Manger will sit in an acoustic Null.
There is no stored energy (no box).
Each pair of bass units could use Kef-107 style rods between the bolt holds of opposing units.
Bass units
======
So in my quest to find a fuller range HF unit, I have come full circle.
The problem now was to find a bass unit that could:
+) move a large amount of air - xmax
+) Have an even response
+) Have a high breakup (Cross over around 400Hz, bass unit should be clean to >1 khz)
+) Have a low fs as possible
+) Have a reasonable efficiency
+) Have low distortion
+) How low compression at high power.
I narrowed down the list of Bass units to Exodus Audio(XBL2), Aurasound, Audiopulse(LMS), Acoustic Eminence
After about 300 hours of reading, and various communique with most of the companies, I chose the Acoustic Eminence AV15H.
http://aespeakers.com/shop/catalog/...id=67&osCsid=4e7e29531ed3ec6ea38bd5b3c1ab84d5
I'm sure everyone has their own ideas about what is the most important criteria is. I included Le minimisation in the mix.
Frequency response / HF delay
===================
I will be using a Behringer DCX to delay the HF, and to equalise the LF response.
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DCX2496.aspx
Power for each speaker
===============
1 x Wyred4sound SX-1000 for the Manger
3 x SX-1000 (each opposing pair wired in series gets a power amp).
The SX-1000 are Class-D, Idle 15watts, good sound quality (I hope!), and capable of very high power output.
http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/...view.html?pid=332075&b_id=&find_groupid=18046
Build
===
Just awaiting for all the components to turn up.
Have pity on my neighbours!
Tuckshop
Attachments
Re: Two Way full range con Manger
A few comments,
Smart idea of putting the Manger in the acoustic null.
Can you post a picture of your schemes?
Nice bass units the AE (Acoustic Elegance btw) with Lambda motor. I'm looking forward to your impressions. It's a pity that John support is quite lacking and shipping expensive to EU.
I'm NOT a fan of icepower modules for the bass. They didnt work well with my previous speakers. Did you consider alternatives such as ucd or the biggest tripath? If not going class AB.
Also, do you plan to add some magnet power on the back of the MSWs?
Following your project with interest,
Telstar
A few comments,
Smart idea of putting the Manger in the acoustic null.
Can you post a picture of your schemes?
Nice bass units the AE (Acoustic Elegance btw) with Lambda motor. I'm looking forward to your impressions. It's a pity that John support is quite lacking and shipping expensive to EU.
I'm NOT a fan of icepower modules for the bass. They didnt work well with my previous speakers. Did you consider alternatives such as ucd or the biggest tripath? If not going class AB.
Also, do you plan to add some magnet power on the back of the MSWs?
Following your project with interest,
Telstar
Manger crossover
AJ, Interesting post!
I also built a mother of a two way speaker with Manger and a big (Beyma 12 LX60) pro bass / low mid driver and I found I had to isolate the Manger (already housed in its own 22Kg resin "egg") on a slab of Sorbothane to stop the structural vibrations from the bass modulating the Manger.
I have sent Telstar the photo of my " Encore" speaker if you want to have a look, the file is too big to post here.
I have never had a problem with air-bourn bass preasure waves modulating the Manger diaphram.
It could be easily tested and any effect measured by disconecting
the Manger driver, playing very high SPL bass and drum and measuring the physical movment of the Manger diaphram with an accelerometer.
I have always wanted to buy an accelerometer....!
On the crossover front I have always used 300Hz to 400hz because I love life like dynamics on piano, drums and opera so I need to be hitting 115dB peaks (85dB to 95 dB average) and that blows the Manger (I have blown 2 learning this !) if you feed in low midrange / upper bass.
Also my own battery powered DEQX with external DAC's and usually 48 dB to 60dB per octave LINEAR PHASE crossovers. Must be Linear Phase.
I love big open baffle bass, Beyma 15 inch is great value but last year I went crazy and paid for a small run (30 units) of custom 18 inch driver to my spec.
: 5 inch voice coil but total Mms still only 130g,
Bl 31 (!!!), Fs 28Hz, linnen surround / paper cone,
power compression under 1 dB at 700 watts,(!!!)
real world sensitivity of 100 dB for 1 watt, and total weight of over 20Kg. Its a beast with power bass, and beauty with acoustic bass and still sounds sweet up to about 800Hz with a 60 dB crossover. I only run it up to 100Hz to about 150Hz and then crossover to a 10inch or 12 inch driver, then the Manger kicks in at 300Hz to 400Hz depending on SPL requirement. 1 click on the DEQX to jump from 200Hz 300Hz or 400 Hz so A / B / A testing is easy and accurate.
All drivers VPL U frame and I am experimenting with wave guide profile on Manger and low mid drivers.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Derek.
AJ, Interesting post!
I also built a mother of a two way speaker with Manger and a big (Beyma 12 LX60) pro bass / low mid driver and I found I had to isolate the Manger (already housed in its own 22Kg resin "egg") on a slab of Sorbothane to stop the structural vibrations from the bass modulating the Manger.
I have sent Telstar the photo of my " Encore" speaker if you want to have a look, the file is too big to post here.
I have never had a problem with air-bourn bass preasure waves modulating the Manger diaphram.
It could be easily tested and any effect measured by disconecting
the Manger driver, playing very high SPL bass and drum and measuring the physical movment of the Manger diaphram with an accelerometer.
I have always wanted to buy an accelerometer....!
On the crossover front I have always used 300Hz to 400hz because I love life like dynamics on piano, drums and opera so I need to be hitting 115dB peaks (85dB to 95 dB average) and that blows the Manger (I have blown 2 learning this !) if you feed in low midrange / upper bass.
Also my own battery powered DEQX with external DAC's and usually 48 dB to 60dB per octave LINEAR PHASE crossovers. Must be Linear Phase.
I love big open baffle bass, Beyma 15 inch is great value but last year I went crazy and paid for a small run (30 units) of custom 18 inch driver to my spec.
: 5 inch voice coil but total Mms still only 130g,
Bl 31 (!!!), Fs 28Hz, linnen surround / paper cone,
power compression under 1 dB at 700 watts,(!!!)
real world sensitivity of 100 dB for 1 watt, and total weight of over 20Kg. Its a beast with power bass, and beauty with acoustic bass and still sounds sweet up to about 800Hz with a 60 dB crossover. I only run it up to 100Hz to about 150Hz and then crossover to a 10inch or 12 inch driver, then the Manger kicks in at 300Hz to 400Hz depending on SPL requirement. 1 click on the DEQX to jump from 200Hz 300Hz or 400 Hz so A / B / A testing is easy and accurate.
All drivers VPL U frame and I am experimenting with wave guide profile on Manger and low mid drivers.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Derek.
Telstar,
Acoustic Elegance
===========
As far as price goes - I am very happy. US prices are so much cheaper than EU.
AE give you a 20% discount when you buy in bulk.
From within US: Buying 1 x AV15H cost $250 + sales tax + shipping.
My order (shipped to door / UK) works out to $298 including duty, tax, shipping per drive unit.
John Janowitz sent me a personal email response on design questions I had before selecting this unit. (as did Exodus Audio and Aurasound).
I really couldn't imagine anyone being more supportive.
ICE power
======
My (very simple) understanding of Class-D leads me believe that it better at handling high current, and high damping (good for LF), but that noise increases with frequency (not so good for HF).
My other consideration was efficiency of the Amps (don't want to a new mains spur, and I don't want end up being cooked in same room).
I have read many articles about ICE power. I steered clear of the first generation. I have heard the 2nd generation in the high power Rotels RB1090 - Which I thought sounded ok. I've also owned Crown K2 - which sound Ok for most duties.
It is difficult to be objective in this area because I have not had a chance to play with / listen to the latest generations.
Wyred4sound is one of the companies that have customised the modules, and spec-wise meet my minimum requirements. I guess I'll find out if I've made the right choice over the coming months 🙂
Magnet power on back of MSW
===================
I am not sure what this is - could you elaborate!
Designs
=====
I did have a multitude of designs that used 2,3,4,6,8 & 9 drive units for each speaker. As my artwork leave a lot to be desired (read I can't draw!). What kind of design are you looking for?
Just attached a 3 unit drawing - doesn't have the benefits of the 6 version one in previous post!
If you search for anitpodal subwoofers - you'll also find some other designs.
Overkill
=====
Meant to reply earlier - I read (or dreamt?) that the Crossover point in the Overkill speaker is actually 315Hz.
Regards,
Tuckshop
Acoustic Elegance
===========
As far as price goes - I am very happy. US prices are so much cheaper than EU.
AE give you a 20% discount when you buy in bulk.
From within US: Buying 1 x AV15H cost $250 + sales tax + shipping.
My order (shipped to door / UK) works out to $298 including duty, tax, shipping per drive unit.
John Janowitz sent me a personal email response on design questions I had before selecting this unit. (as did Exodus Audio and Aurasound).
I really couldn't imagine anyone being more supportive.
ICE power
======
My (very simple) understanding of Class-D leads me believe that it better at handling high current, and high damping (good for LF), but that noise increases with frequency (not so good for HF).
My other consideration was efficiency of the Amps (don't want to a new mains spur, and I don't want end up being cooked in same room).
I have read many articles about ICE power. I steered clear of the first generation. I have heard the 2nd generation in the high power Rotels RB1090 - Which I thought sounded ok. I've also owned Crown K2 - which sound Ok for most duties.
It is difficult to be objective in this area because I have not had a chance to play with / listen to the latest generations.
Wyred4sound is one of the companies that have customised the modules, and spec-wise meet my minimum requirements. I guess I'll find out if I've made the right choice over the coming months 🙂
Magnet power on back of MSW
===================
I am not sure what this is - could you elaborate!
Designs
=====
I did have a multitude of designs that used 2,3,4,6,8 & 9 drive units for each speaker. As my artwork leave a lot to be desired (read I can't draw!). What kind of design are you looking for?
Just attached a 3 unit drawing - doesn't have the benefits of the 6 version one in previous post!
If you search for anitpodal subwoofers - you'll also find some other designs.
Overkill
=====
Meant to reply earlier - I read (or dreamt?) that the Crossover point in the Overkill speaker is actually 315Hz.
Regards,
Tuckshop
Attachments
AJ crossover frequency
Hi Aj,
I used 300Hz for all normal listening and then 400Hz for the high SPL listening. I had the DEQX set up to give me 4 options of EQ / crossover settings depending on CD quality and mood.
Cheers
Derek.
Hi Aj,
I used 300Hz for all normal listening and then 400Hz for the high SPL listening. I had the DEQX set up to give me 4 options of EQ / crossover settings depending on CD quality and mood.
Cheers
Derek.
Hello,
"Horst, any plans on Posaune measurement?"
not yet, but someone will test the Manger, i don´t know if he can make measurements, as you see the simu of membranmovement,
for me interesting, because i tested the BASSTUBA,
POSAUNE is small and "must" give more bass, smaller size, and if you stand up the soundstage will not break in,
look my other double horns.
thanks for asking.
The point is you need two MSW, very expensive,
AFAIK the tester will also test a normal speaker in the back.
I hope he will built it.
For Manger it is not interesting, to less part, (no parts),
the carpenter is the winner by my constructions, if the
POSAUNE works with MSW as i "feel" it, Manger would not sell
their "big" boxes any longer. ;-))
The Basstuba licence they bought 1994, but you find it only
in the Manger DiY section.
"Horst, any plans on Posaune measurement?"
not yet, but someone will test the Manger, i don´t know if he can make measurements, as you see the simu of membranmovement,
for me interesting, because i tested the BASSTUBA,
POSAUNE is small and "must" give more bass, smaller size, and if you stand up the soundstage will not break in,
look my other double horns.
thanks for asking.
The point is you need two MSW, very expensive,
AFAIK the tester will also test a normal speaker in the back.
I hope he will built it.
For Manger it is not interesting, to less part, (no parts),
the carpenter is the winner by my constructions, if the
POSAUNE works with MSW as i "feel" it, Manger would not sell
their "big" boxes any longer. ;-))
The Basstuba licence they bought 1994, but you find it only
in the Manger DiY section.
"POSAUNE is small and "must" give more bass, smaller size, and if you stand up the soundstage will not break in"
What SPL do you expect it will produce?
What SPL do you expect it will produce?
Yep, that's a bipole. Looks like a winner considering the dispersion pattern and weak magnets of the MSW. The looser is your wallet 😉
Telstar,
Here are a couple of the 4 bass unit designs, with the Manger on top in a sealed globes (see attachment).
I discounted the U chambers for the sub (ie sealing the back) section because:
+) there would be a resultant movement back and forwards
+) there is an sizeable (air) impedance difference between blowing and sucking (ie this would introduce it own asymmetry.
I discounted the Globes in order that the Mangers can sit in an acoustic null (an 'arbitrary design goal)
Derek,
Glad to see you are still pushing the DEQX boundaries. I've been sitting on the fence for some time waiting for an affordable system that sits in the digital chain to "fix" the audio like the Kef cube did - but digitally. HDMI in -> Fix -> HDMI out. Who knows - it may never exist?
Regarding the bass having any effect on nearby transducers. The 15" bass units from my last speakers had an xmax of 33mm. Even the sofa moved at 3 metres. And so I speculate that would be significant air movement and pressure change in the near field.
Beyma units: I saw / heard your system when you demoed at the HFNN show - and thought that your 12" bass + Geodic top Manger sounded amazing compared to my Teak globed Mangers + Tumults.
In this design, I spent quite some time debating if the inherently lower mms of paper was more important than having a higher breakup frequency. I know what breakup sounds like (horrible), I don't know what high mms sounds - and so I've gone for a bass unit that has a very low Le, and is supposedly clean to >600Hz (where the foam surround starts contributing energy).
Photos: You can submit photos to this site. You just need to reduce the size down to 100KB. I dowloaded Googles' Picasca on my Mac & PC. As well as giving you space to store about 5,000 high res pics on the internet (for free), it also gives you the chance to 'Export' these pictures to any size you want. www.olivejuice.co.uk uses it if you want to see how quick the interface is 🙂
Regards,
Tuckshop
Here are a couple of the 4 bass unit designs, with the Manger on top in a sealed globes (see attachment).
I discounted the U chambers for the sub (ie sealing the back) section because:
+) there would be a resultant movement back and forwards
+) there is an sizeable (air) impedance difference between blowing and sucking (ie this would introduce it own asymmetry.
I discounted the Globes in order that the Mangers can sit in an acoustic null (an 'arbitrary design goal)
Derek,
Glad to see you are still pushing the DEQX boundaries. I've been sitting on the fence for some time waiting for an affordable system that sits in the digital chain to "fix" the audio like the Kef cube did - but digitally. HDMI in -> Fix -> HDMI out. Who knows - it may never exist?
Regarding the bass having any effect on nearby transducers. The 15" bass units from my last speakers had an xmax of 33mm. Even the sofa moved at 3 metres. And so I speculate that would be significant air movement and pressure change in the near field.
Beyma units: I saw / heard your system when you demoed at the HFNN show - and thought that your 12" bass + Geodic top Manger sounded amazing compared to my Teak globed Mangers + Tumults.
In this design, I spent quite some time debating if the inherently lower mms of paper was more important than having a higher breakup frequency. I know what breakup sounds like (horrible), I don't know what high mms sounds - and so I've gone for a bass unit that has a very low Le, and is supposedly clean to >600Hz (where the foam surround starts contributing energy).
Photos: You can submit photos to this site. You just need to reduce the size down to 100KB. I dowloaded Googles' Picasca on my Mac & PC. As well as giving you space to store about 5,000 high res pics on the internet (for free), it also gives you the chance to 'Export' these pictures to any size you want. www.olivejuice.co.uk uses it if you want to see how quick the interface is 🙂
Regards,
Tuckshop
