"you change the speaker cable and you hear a difference."
Audiophiles can't tell the difference between Monster Cable and coat hangers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Carver
and a few other things suggest maybe you .. are fed up telling people what they hear or not, but it may happen this coin has a nother side.
so to say.
Audiophiles can't tell the difference between Monster Cable and coat hangers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Carver
and a few other things suggest maybe you .. are fed up telling people what they hear or not, but it may happen this coin has a nother side.
so to say.
That's only because its really really thick hanger wire. LOL.
OK Audiophiles cant - but regular people can ???? is that the point you're making ? Then OK I concede.
Maybe they cant tell between 4 gauge OFC and 6 gauge OFC over a 3' run, maybe. But Between a 4 gauge OFC and a 16 gauge OFC, I'll guarantee you any setup that works better with high current will be easy to tell.
Cool.
Srinath.
OK Audiophiles cant - but regular people can ???? is that the point you're making ? Then OK I concede.
Maybe they cant tell between 4 gauge OFC and 6 gauge OFC over a 3' run, maybe. But Between a 4 gauge OFC and a 16 gauge OFC, I'll guarantee you any setup that works better with high current will be easy to tell.
Cool.
Srinath.
My hearing is pretty damaged. I have a lot of speakers and they all sound a bit wrong.
I made my own dipole speakers that sounds great. But they might be all too bright for others whit good ears.
In my ears they are hi-fi. Meaning high fidelity, and not expencive/exlusive.
I made my own dipole speakers that sounds great. But they might be all too bright for others whit good ears.
In my ears they are hi-fi. Meaning high fidelity, and not expencive/exlusive.
spot on, and nailed it hard.
exactly one of the points i made.
what sounds good to you is best for you, someone else telling you what to hear is kindof.. kicking off the b/s meter.
about.. no.
really not at all. i mean if they are worthy speakers you won't pump more into them than a few watts, tipically under 10 watts.
what kindof current are we talking about there?
the wire used to wind up the coil of the speaker driver is.. oh darn wait, its thin as hell, and long as hell. hmm.. compared to that impedance, how mutch does the connecting wire weight? not to mention the difference between a a reasonably thinck one, and an unreasonably fat one ?
now, there is your dinner. plain simple.
carver knew this and a few tricks pretty well, hence was he able to clone the sound of any kind of amp, regardless of topology and class. proper blind test often reveal that people are kindof prone to get into delusions and consider them hard facts.
That fits exactly with the philosophy of all these lossy compression systems.
They deliberately REMOVE some of the audio information and make no attempt to put that missing information back in to the audio signal.
That is the fundamental difference between lossy and lossless compression.
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I sometimes wonder if the acute perception that audiophiles possess, which allows them to listen past the music, is a gift they are born with, or can it be learned?
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I don't claim to have acute perception, but after building many amps and listening tests, I've trained myself what to listen for. Funny thing is, every time I thought I heard something wrong, I go play the passage on different equipment and hear the same "defect". It was always in the source material.
Later, I started the "differential test". With the amplifier driving a load, I take the input signal and compare with the output by differentiation (after compensating the amplitude differences, of course). It soothes my concerns. Sometimes I think my ears/brain make artifacts up!
people seen faces on the moon, found some creepy stuff on blurred images and stuff like that.
we are pretty good in finding patterns if we want to, even if the patterns are not even really there.
if the patterns you recognise in life are a threat to your life, then you are politely asked to visit a doctor. to address paranoia.
now.. quite simular, if you train your self to hear artifacts, i can assure you, you gona hear them. whatever it take,s but you will do.
we are pretty good in finding patterns if we want to, even if the patterns are not even really there.
if the patterns you recognise in life are a threat to your life, then you are politely asked to visit a doctor. to address paranoia.
now.. quite simular, if you train your self to hear artifacts, i can assure you, you gona hear them. whatever it take,s but you will do.
These are B&W 801's, pretty much 87-88 db. 10 watts is fine, but we had them bumping, maybe closer to 40 watts.
And most high quality speakers have something closer to 14 or so gauge wire. I have been modifying a Kappa 6.1 Xo for use in my Dynaudio copy, and that is thicker than 14gauge and under 2' length. Also there it is split 3 ways, so it really is no restriction to current compared to a long run wire of 16 gauge carrying all the signal.
Thanks.
Srinath.
i'm lazy to look up how thick is awg 14, but it would be pointless mostly.
i talk about the coil in the speaker, the voicecoil.
how thick and how long is that, what reactance it has vs the cables from amp to speaker, now that does indeed mathers. you will -if you want to- come to the conclusion that the speaker wire is .. unless really long, won't interfer a lot, not to mention the difference between a regular and an "über" cable, if you can hear the difference then there is no point in discussion.
it has been demonstrated numerous times in history with proper blind tests, that a simple coathanger is just as good as a speaker wire than any "über" kind of wire for 99% of cases.
numbers don't fall into delusions.
i talk about the coil in the speaker, the voicecoil.
how thick and how long is that, what reactance it has vs the cables from amp to speaker, now that does indeed mathers. you will -if you want to- come to the conclusion that the speaker wire is .. unless really long, won't interfer a lot, not to mention the difference between a regular and an "über" cable, if you can hear the difference then there is no point in discussion.
it has been demonstrated numerous times in history with proper blind tests, that a simple coathanger is just as good as a speaker wire than any "über" kind of wire for 99% of cases.
numbers don't fall into delusions.
An 8 ohm VC is pretty thin, like 2-3' of single strand maybe 24 gauge wire, 7 ohm DCR there abouts.
But that's my point exactly, every 3ft adds like 6.5-7 ohm DCR. A 10' cable run of that and you're looking @ a 40 ohm load.
I'd compare it to a traffic Jam on the road to the beach vs a lot of people @ the beach cos there is a huge 8 lane road going to the beach with high speed traffic.
Thin cable prevents all the people form getting to the beach.
Fat cable gets the people to the beach, and party on.
Cool.
Srinath.
But that's my point exactly, every 3ft adds like 6.5-7 ohm DCR. A 10' cable run of that and you're looking @ a 40 ohm load.
I'd compare it to a traffic Jam on the road to the beach vs a lot of people @ the beach cos there is a huge 8 lane road going to the beach with high speed traffic.
Thin cable prevents all the people form getting to the beach.
Fat cable gets the people to the beach, and party on.
Cool.
Srinath.
FWIW I make speakers from scratch (sheet metal, iron plate, cold rolled bar, unmagnetized magnets, the real metallurgical deal) and wind my own voice coils.
As a real World example, a 1 1/2" (38mm) guitar speaker voice coil, 8 ohms nominal , takes 95 turns of 0.18mm wire (AWG33), which amount to 11.3 m length, weighs 2.6 grams, and in this case measures ~7.5 ohms DCR .
In practice a little less, because you don't wind to a fixed amount of turns but to a fixed winding length (dictated by top plate thickness) and since it's a low (mechanical) tension winding in general is not as tight as we'd like.
But these are real World numbers, this one coil is my bread and butter, the typical 12" guitar speaker one, I've made and sold many thousands of them.
The point is that compared to >11 meters of 0.18mm wire and the ~7 ohms resistance, even 4 or 5 meters of humble 1mm zipcord (~16 Ga) is doing *nothing* to the final sound.
#10 Ga?
Silver wire?
Litz?
All of the above?
Be my guest, it's your money 😉
Banana plugs vs solid brass vs solid copper vs gold plated vs silver plated terminals vs soldered connections?
We are talking contact resistance way below 0.1 ohm in any case, unless it's rusty iron you won't (can't) hear it.
As a real World example, a 1 1/2" (38mm) guitar speaker voice coil, 8 ohms nominal , takes 95 turns of 0.18mm wire (AWG33), which amount to 11.3 m length, weighs 2.6 grams, and in this case measures ~7.5 ohms DCR .
In practice a little less, because you don't wind to a fixed amount of turns but to a fixed winding length (dictated by top plate thickness) and since it's a low (mechanical) tension winding in general is not as tight as we'd like.
But these are real World numbers, this one coil is my bread and butter, the typical 12" guitar speaker one, I've made and sold many thousands of them.
The point is that compared to >11 meters of 0.18mm wire and the ~7 ohms resistance, even 4 or 5 meters of humble 1mm zipcord (~16 Ga) is doing *nothing* to the final sound.
#10 Ga?
Silver wire?
Litz?
All of the above?
Be my guest, it's your money 😉
Banana plugs vs solid brass vs solid copper vs gold plated vs silver plated terminals vs soldered connections?
We are talking contact resistance way below 0.1 ohm in any case, unless it's rusty iron you won't (can't) hear it.
I've got a ~50 ft run in my longest amp to speaker. The 14 gauge I had on it vs 18 I have now, did make a difference, but not that it mattered to me, it was a rear speaker.
Thanks.
Srinath.
Thanks.
Srinath.
Those that hear voices are prescribed medication and some need long term care.
Perhaps Audiophiles that swear they can hear stuff that we mortals cannot, deserve the same help?
Perhaps Audiophiles that swear they can hear stuff that we mortals cannot, deserve the same help?
I swear my friend is nuts too when I hear of him talking about things I cant hear, except on his system I do hear them.
I think we should medicate the systems that make people hear things.
Cool.
Srinath.
I think we should medicate the systems that make people hear things.
Cool.
Srinath.
yup, exactly my point too.
and then comes someone with a nice openbaffle setup, and adds (read it well, ADDS) a series resistor to the system. just to "ride" the impedance peak near FS to get a bit better bass rolloff and make it sound better. and the same person would still use a thick cable, just for the heck of it 😀
so yess, i'm with you on this subject, the cable is not going to give that "special sound" that without "your whole system is screwd up".
its a myth.
and then comes someone with a nice openbaffle setup, and adds (read it well, ADDS) a series resistor to the system. just to "ride" the impedance peak near FS to get a bit better bass rolloff and make it sound better. and the same person would still use a thick cable, just for the heck of it 😀
so yess, i'm with you on this subject, the cable is not going to give that "special sound" that without "your whole system is screwd up".
its a myth.
Special or not is up for debate. But change - I can hear that pretty obviously, and when the only item changed was the cable, its easy to attribute to that.
Cool.
Srinath.
Cool.
Srinath.
Well you didn't ask till now.
A fatter cable tends to show up more as spl in most cases, But I have also got a bit extra detail, like you hear someone's foot moving across the floor more clearly when you would have heard it as something muffling the music in that 1 spot with thinner cable.
Not always good BTW, you may not want to hear that extra detail, in fact hearing it, you start listening to the equipment instead of the nusic.
Cool.
Srinath.
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