Mains cables.Do they (and why)make any difference?

[analog_sa]

My question is, dose any one know what the bandwidth of a power transformer is?

For a "nice" toroid - MHz?

 

[adrianuk]

Can anyone give a non-ridiculous guess why mains cables could cause the kind of sonic effects that are being described here?


--Buckapound [/B][/QUOTE]


All power supplies will allow some RF noise through. The magnitude and frequency of this RF noise will effect the sound. Any mains cable that is connected to this power supply will effect (increase or decrease) this the RF noise before it goes into the power supply and hence the sound.

This RF noise is both mains & airborne, and even some cables can generate RF noise themselves. This means that some peoples system will sound worse that other even if the cable & equipment is similar.

 

[Panicos K]

To SY and cbdb:You know I don't have evidence,that is why I am trying through your replies,to improve my knowledge.
cbdb,the line I've installed is for all my equipment,but the original question of mine was mainly for the cable effect on turntables.Honestly I don't have an answer to your question.If I had one I would say it.On the subject I mostly have questions.But,let us suppose that some "golden ears",pass a blind test.How would the physicist community react?Wouldn't be better for all if the physicists made an effort to find ways to check all possibilities?What I mean is that-and correct me if I am wrong-after the invention of the "L,C,R" meter,nothing else was invented to take things to possibly uknown fields.And I do not believe that all who buy some cables above the "average" ones are "audiofools"etc..... and certainly many of them are not rich,or buying these cables because they are pretty.They pay for them.Of cource there are those who can and want to buy the most expensive there is without even go into the trouble to listen to anything,just because a reviwer said it is good etc.......Not all are like them.

 

[Buckapound]

Adrianuk,

RF makes sense as a possible source of noise, and I do have a shielded cable, FWIW. Although I have no idea how much good it would do anyone in a house full of unshielded vinyl wire. And as Sy has noted, they do have cheap and effective filters for that

And of course this has little to do with the gauge of the wire or whether it's solid or not. At least as far as my limited knowledge of physics goes.

--Buckapound

 

[cbdb]

I guess everyone knows what side of the objective subjective side im on.
Is there any science to your claims? Have you done any proper blind testing, or do we just believe your golden ears. Do the engineers who design and build high end studio gear ship there units with ordinary power cords because they want there gear to sound bad?

 

[cbdb]

Ive repaired gear and built wired worked and recorded/mixed music and movies in recording studios for 25 years and talked to many techs in high end studios, and for power (including speakers) as long the wires are short enough and heavey enough gauge every one is happy. For interconect cable, most people use mogami, a low capacitance dual conductor cable (ballanced) that only costs a couple of dollars a foot. Sounds better to me means little when people think a tube amp with 2% distortion and a 6 db boost at 100 hz "sounds better"

 

[SimontY]

Could noise radiated from the power cord itself (to the audio system) be a cause of audibility?

Why can something that is easy to hear not be understood in this day and age? I guess one reason is that it's not an important area for research, other than for commercial ventures in a niche market.

Simon

 

[cbdb]

what do you hear?

 

[Panicos K]

Engineers who design hi-end studio/audio gear send here the same power cables they send to all countries.A reason might be that they believe it is good enough.Another reason is because they might leave the choice of a different power cable,to the end user to decide.(This last reason,I know for sure).
No,there is no science to my claims,and I 've said this before.And if you are to believe my claims,it is something you have to decide if it means anything to you.And yes-I've said this before too-for the specific cable I'm talking about,an Oyaide EE/FS-2.0 I have "passed"a friend's blind test with a 10/10 score,compared to the standard cable of my turntable,using the same track's first 35 seconds.More,taking measurements with a calibrated microphone at the listening position,we have got constant readings everytime we compared the cables.For me,these tests were enough to make me decide to spend $318.00(for 8m of cale including connectors) and not a fortune as some may think.Surprisingly,the mic measurements were very close to what our "golden ears" have heard.I am not an electronics engineer so I cannot give maybe like some friends here scientific answers,but I am not hiding behind a "LCR meter" either as I have said in another thread in the past.

 

[cbdb]

what does your mic measure?

 

[Panicos K]

The test was done using pink noise

 

[cbdb]

and what were the differances

 

[Panicos K]

Mostly at the two extremes.Slightly more flat response at around 12khz and above(near 1db)and almost 2db from around 45hz and lower.That was a more logical response for the Focal 946 speaker we have used for the listening.Just for the record,well,the amp was a tube one,a Leben RS-28CX/CS-660P pre/power amp,Thorens TD-350/SME M2-9/BENZ MICRO LP ebony/Lukaschek PP-1/T9 phono stage.

 

[cbdb]

your saying the power cord has changed the freq response of a turntable with no preamp in it. unless it has changed the speed of your motor and thus the pitch of your audio this is impossible (i thought you were going to say the noise or hum changed )

 

[SY]

How would the physicist community react?

Get some evidence (beyond mere assertion) that these effects are "clearly audible" and at that point it will transform from "waste of time" to "interesting problem." Until then, at least consider the possibility that it's a figment of the brain, not an actual audible effect.

 

[Panicos K]

I am saying that it has changed the final sound measured at the listening position,just as we have heard it.No phono preamp in the turntable,but of course a phono preamp between the turntable and the preamp.No speed change was noticed.Some hum was present before and after the use of the power cable,but we knew it was caused by earthing of the phono stage and now it is gone.I am surprised myself that is why I am trying to understand a few things from your posts and others.I hope that no body here believes that I have time to waste doing bad jokes

 

[cbdb]

I hate to doubt your test methods but freq response tests with a mic in a real room, (not anechoic chambers), even using pink noise and long settling times, is tricky buisness. You in the room will make a difference.

 

[Panicos K]

Who's brain SY? You know my views from the past.My comment for waste of time was posted before I saw yours.If it is my time you care of don't feel sorry.I will be waiting too for evidence that these effects are not clearly audible.And if the evidence that they are not audible is L,C,R then I surely believe my ears more.Is a measured result enough evidence for you?

 

[Panicos K]

cbdb,correct, but I was in the room when many cables were tested.And I listen to music in that room,not in an anechoic chamber.

 

[cbdb]

you used a record with pink noise? and why include your amp, speakers and room!! in the measurments? Can you measure straight out the turntable? or at least pre amp