<$100 Near-Field Recording Monitors
I have a friend who wants to fool around with home recording, and wants some ultra-budget near-field monitors for his computer/recording setup. I've been reading and reviewing different things and have come up with some general requirements and a few options for some systems. I need some help evaluating them.
Requirements/Info:
1. Stereo, near-field (probably table-top or wall-mounted)
2. Strict Budget of $100 for drivers and crossover parts
3. Must have as flat of a response as possible (not voiced for pleasure, but for critiquing)
4. Should be as revealing as possible (I'm thinking they probably shouldn't smooth things out too much if they are to be used for critiquing)
5. Should probably be shielded if they're going to be near computer equipment
6. They will be powered by some kind of SS stereo receiver
7. They should be able to play well at different volume levels
8. Would REALLY like to Crossover kind of high -- around 3500hz at least -- to keep the midrange as clear as possible
Easy, huh? Anyway, I know this is about compromises, and so does he. It's just something to get him in the ballpark. Here are some of the options I'm considering:
A. Zaph's Silverflute 2-ways -- Not shielded, but might work of they are wall mounted. The BSC might need to be reduced or removed for this usage, right? This design also crosses over lower than desired, but it looks like a well-measured and tweaked design, so it may not be a huge problem.
B. A 2-way with the RS180 -- This looks like it could possible cross over around 3500hz. I'm not sure what tweeter would pair with it, maybe one of the little dayton Neos or the Dayton "silkie" that Zaph tested.
C. A 2-way with the TB W5-704S and one of the Dayton Neos. This is my favorite option so far, because I could cross over even higher, around 4000hz, and make better use of a cheaper tweeter. It would also leave a little more money for the crossover.
C-2. Not sure if this has any merit, but I was wondering if I could adopt the waveguide idea from zaph's other project to the idea listed above (C). I guess I'm wondering if that might allow super-simple crossovers on both drivers and better time alignment in one fell swoop. Maybe it wouldn't work with this tweeter and this crossover point?
As you can tell, I've been sucking loads of info off of Zaph's site. He's been a big help. His site totally introduced me to the idea of worrying about distortion. Plus, he's a Wisconsin guy, so I gotta trust him.
-Luke
I have a friend who wants to fool around with home recording, and wants some ultra-budget near-field monitors for his computer/recording setup. I've been reading and reviewing different things and have come up with some general requirements and a few options for some systems. I need some help evaluating them.
Requirements/Info:
1. Stereo, near-field (probably table-top or wall-mounted)
2. Strict Budget of $100 for drivers and crossover parts
3. Must have as flat of a response as possible (not voiced for pleasure, but for critiquing)
4. Should be as revealing as possible (I'm thinking they probably shouldn't smooth things out too much if they are to be used for critiquing)
5. Should probably be shielded if they're going to be near computer equipment
6. They will be powered by some kind of SS stereo receiver
7. They should be able to play well at different volume levels
8. Would REALLY like to Crossover kind of high -- around 3500hz at least -- to keep the midrange as clear as possible
Easy, huh? Anyway, I know this is about compromises, and so does he. It's just something to get him in the ballpark. Here are some of the options I'm considering:
A. Zaph's Silverflute 2-ways -- Not shielded, but might work of they are wall mounted. The BSC might need to be reduced or removed for this usage, right? This design also crosses over lower than desired, but it looks like a well-measured and tweaked design, so it may not be a huge problem.
B. A 2-way with the RS180 -- This looks like it could possible cross over around 3500hz. I'm not sure what tweeter would pair with it, maybe one of the little dayton Neos or the Dayton "silkie" that Zaph tested.
C. A 2-way with the TB W5-704S and one of the Dayton Neos. This is my favorite option so far, because I could cross over even higher, around 4000hz, and make better use of a cheaper tweeter. It would also leave a little more money for the crossover.
C-2. Not sure if this has any merit, but I was wondering if I could adopt the waveguide idea from zaph's other project to the idea listed above (C). I guess I'm wondering if that might allow super-simple crossovers on both drivers and better time alignment in one fell swoop. Maybe it wouldn't work with this tweeter and this crossover point?
As you can tell, I've been sucking loads of info off of Zaph's site. He's been a big help. His site totally introduced me to the idea of worrying about distortion. Plus, he's a Wisconsin guy, so I gotta trust him.
-Luke
The price limit is a strict $100. $200 is twice that. Also, I would be pretty hesitant to trust any commercial speaker systems in that price range.
Cal Weldon said:
I forgot! That was going to be option D. I was thinking that you could use a 3" like the B3S or the TB 871 paired with a larger driver, like the 5" Tang Band, and Cross over fairly low, like 200 Hz. The full range driver would have to be quite flat though, and have good top-end extension. It might work. This is officially option D.
I would think the CSS FR125 by itself might do the trick. As long as you are close, there's plenty of bass. It's a very balanced driver. Not very loud but you said nearfield, so...
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=FR125S
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=FR125S
Cal Weldon said:
I've been reading great things about those drivers on this site for months. I'm interesting in playing with a pair in the future, but for this project they are a little too pricey. I'm also assuming that they would need filtering of some kind, which would add to the costs.
For $100, I can not think of ANY way to get good recording monitors. I guess it depends on what you're recording. If it's a flute ensemble, or something similar with no bass, maybe... but I just don't think you can get any kind of flat dynamic range for that budget once you consider a bass drum or bass guitar. Even nearfield, I just don't see it happening.
$100 would buy you a reasonably nice set of headphones. In my opinion, it's the only way to get studio-worthy accuracy for your budget. If you're worried about having more than one person at a time hear the mix, for discussion purposes, you could get two sets of $50 headphones, or a master set for $75 and a less set for $25.
A few comments here;
A- sounds like a reasonable project for the price. I doubt they're as accurate as even $50 headphones, especially in the bass.
B- The RS180 will sound horrible if used much higher than 2.5 khz. It starts to run into energy storage (ringing) problems as low as 2 khz, and with a crossover as high as 3.5 khz, you probably wouldn't be able to kill the metal cone breakup. That's when you're REALLY be in trouble. There's a reason most designs with the RS180 cross so low. I have one with the RS180 crossed to a Seas 27TBFC/G tweeter well below 2 khz, and the midrange is really excellent. I'd suggest a similar project if you could increase the budget to $300.
C- Not a bad idea if you have the equipment do do measurements, and can design a crossover. Also consider the Aurasound titanium tweeter, for $9. It has less distortion at the low end of its range, and can cross lower. Still, a 5" driver is not going to produce the bass I'd want to see for a recording monitor.
D- Waveguides could be good- they're actually used for a lot of commercial studio monitors. As it is, I think you'll have a fairly simple crossover with C, since the tang band doesn't have any breakup to worry about.
$100 would buy you a reasonably nice set of headphones. In my opinion, it's the only way to get studio-worthy accuracy for your budget. If you're worried about having more than one person at a time hear the mix, for discussion purposes, you could get two sets of $50 headphones, or a master set for $75 and a less set for $25.
A few comments here;
A- sounds like a reasonable project for the price. I doubt they're as accurate as even $50 headphones, especially in the bass.
B- The RS180 will sound horrible if used much higher than 2.5 khz. It starts to run into energy storage (ringing) problems as low as 2 khz, and with a crossover as high as 3.5 khz, you probably wouldn't be able to kill the metal cone breakup. That's when you're REALLY be in trouble. There's a reason most designs with the RS180 cross so low. I have one with the RS180 crossed to a Seas 27TBFC/G tweeter well below 2 khz, and the midrange is really excellent. I'd suggest a similar project if you could increase the budget to $300.
C- Not a bad idea if you have the equipment do do measurements, and can design a crossover. Also consider the Aurasound titanium tweeter, for $9. It has less distortion at the low end of its range, and can cross lower. Still, a 5" driver is not going to produce the bass I'd want to see for a recording monitor.
D- Waveguides could be good- they're actually used for a lot of commercial studio monitors. As it is, I think you'll have a fairly simple crossover with C, since the tang band doesn't have any breakup to worry about.
joe carrow said:
Okay. Let's just forget option B.
I know that these are not going to be perfectly accurate. For this kind of money, and with these kinds of parts, how could they be? I am interested in seeing how close we can get.
Check out the Tabaq--transmission line full-range using the 3" Tangband drivers. Should fit the budget. There's an active thread going on there now under the "My Bipole Needle..." Well-described plans at: http://coolcat.dk/bjoern/TABAQ_TL_for_TB.pdf
I like the 4" Tand Band W4-1320SB, the ones with the bamboo fiber cones. Very punchy, although they are right at $50 each, but if you could get the wood out of somebody's scrap pile, then...
Although much more costly, the CSS FR125S are a big step up, esp. in terms of bass when used in a small box. I swapped out the TBs with them in a 4.5 liter cabinet, and the difference was night and day.
You can also save a few bucks by doing your filtering at line level instead of in the speaker. Works fine if you are putting together a dedicated setup. Small value caps are a lot cheaper than large, and you can skip the inductors altogether.
I like the 4" Tand Band W4-1320SB, the ones with the bamboo fiber cones. Very punchy, although they are right at $50 each, but if you could get the wood out of somebody's scrap pile, then...
Although much more costly, the CSS FR125S are a big step up, esp. in terms of bass when used in a small box. I swapped out the TBs with them in a 4.5 liter cabinet, and the difference was night and day.
You can also save a few bucks by doing your filtering at line level instead of in the speaker. Works fine if you are putting together a dedicated setup. Small value caps are a lot cheaper than large, and you can skip the inductors altogether.
Buckapound said:
I love TL designs, my first speaker project ever was a folded pipe from the Weems book, but I'm thinking this design should be in a sealed box. It seems like it would be more accurate.
Buckapound said:
I can. I have all the wood and little connectors and stuff we'll need. We just need drivers and crossover parts.
-Luke
Another thought... in a box in my attic someplace I have the guts of some unbuilt Madisound Vifa A/V's (solo version - one woofer and one tweeter apiece). I'd be willing to just give my friend these instead, but I have no idea if the response curve of the speakers would be appropriate. The curves of the individual drivers don't look so hot, but I'm no expert.
While a lot of people like the sound of the Fostex drivers, I maintain my skepticism of their ability to reproduce sounds accurately- which is what you would want for any sort of studio use.
I maintain my assertion that headphones seem like the best way to go for the money. They'll have low distortion, good dynamics, flat frequency response, and they're very portable.
The CSS WR125s speakers do have relatively low distortion, and with a proper tweeter and subwoofer (or very limited SPL requirements), would be good candidates as well.
I maintain my assertion that headphones seem like the best way to go for the money. They'll have low distortion, good dynamics, flat frequency response, and they're very portable.
The CSS WR125s speakers do have relatively low distortion, and with a proper tweeter and subwoofer (or very limited SPL requirements), would be good candidates as well.
I watch alot of anime, which might ruin my credibility right there, but I generally watch all the behind the scenes extras and whatnot, and without exception so far, all the interviews with the Japanese recording and sound engineering folk that I've seen for all the more modern stuff, they're usually sitting in front of their mixing consols and you can see the solo Fostex drivers in what look like simple vented boxes sitting behind them. However, I have never seen them use one with whizzers like the FE166 just suggested. I'm guessing that they're generally using FE126/7 or FE103/7 models. I've not seen any Sigmas or FF series at all, either.
Kensai
Kensai
Kensai said:
Anime? Isn't this site being moderated anymore? 😉
I think that most studios use some form of Yamaha monitors, which could easily be mistaken for fostexes, since they have white-coned woofers. As far as I know, they are proprietary drivers manufactured by/for Yamaha.
I like the efficiency of fostexes, but I have a pair of 167e's, and I don't think they sound all that flat. Does anybody out there think they would be acceptable for this use? I would consider using them , since they are just collecting dust right now.
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