I have the Augies and love them.
I have not heard the Eminence drivers, but just going off the specs the Augies go lower (I get good response into the 30s) and have a larger xmax.
The drawbacks are that they are less efficient (pretty much ruling out a passive crossover) and more expensive.
I use two alpha's with a x-over, boosting the low end, and upping the gain by about 10db using a Lowther PM5A on top. It drops off after 40hz a lot, but 40-100hz can really belt out the bass with that kind of surface area, and appears 'fast'.
I use a similiar dipole to the Visaton NoBox.
I plan on trying out the Dipole15's next, when I find more audio money.
I use a similiar dipole to the Visaton NoBox.
I plan on trying out the Dipole15's next, when I find more audio money.
I'm biamping too (passive line level crossover on top, DSP on the bottom), but I saw a passive crossover suggestion on the Lowther America site. There is no doubt in my mind that biamping is the way to go if possible. I imagine the FirstWatt B5 will be the ultimate solution for these sorts of problems!
Paul
Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers
A lot of people give too much weight to nominal driver efficiency when designing subs (I'd consider OB support woofers a specialty subset of subwoofers). What's more critical, is how much efficiency you have within the passband. For a given efficiency at 30Hz often the better choice is the less nominally efficient driver. Bonus is that they usually come with a lot more Xmax.
Sorry cr0wl3y, I am based in NZ, so no driving to the UK to pick up cabinets 🙂
Any case, my original intention was to go for a big-fun derivative, but space will be an issue and also my heart is pretty much set on trying OB. I just have to find out for myself what all the "hype" is about 🙂
Any case, my original intention was to go for a big-fun derivative, but space will be an issue and also my heart is pretty much set on trying OB. I just have to find out for myself what all the "hype" is about 🙂
The hybrid solution is really interesting.
You have a passive high-pass for the full range driver and you can use an inexpensive plate amp with a built-in low pass for the bass driver. You don't have to stick an active crossover in the signal path of your full range that way.
I like it.
That's the idea. I thought about using plate amps at speaker level (simple), but the DSP is really flexible as a crossover. It will let me deal with any room issues, and though I haven't played too much, I should be able to get the crossover just right. And, I have two DSP crossover channel left over. One or both of those will probably be for a tapped horn sub or two. BTW, in addition to the cap at line level, I have the option of adding a first order passive at speaker level too. I do have some giant motor runs, but I wasn't impressed with the sonics in a quick test.
BTW, anybody looking for Auggies ought'a check the Swap Meet.
Paul
Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers
BTW, anybody looking for Auggies ought'a check the Swap Meet.
Paul
Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers
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Hi pjanda1, which active crossover / EQ are you using? (I'm using a Rane which does not have EQ, and certainly doesn't have spare outputs.)
I'm using the miniDSP from MiniDSP (and the forum here, of course) with the 2-way PEQ plug-in. I posted some info on their own forum. But basically, I put it in a box with a single op amp buffer (needed to get the input impedance up for my tube pre) and powered it with a linear wall wart. It is quiet through the woofers; I haven't tried it through fullrangers. The software is really simple as well. It allows first through 8th order crossovers of various types and 12 bands of parametric EQ. It does not yet do exactly what I need, which is to offer two stereo channels that are both low pass. (Though one can approximate that with the PEQ functions.)
It is a neat little unit. I was pondering today that were it not for my analog source, it would be great fun to run I2S to it and avoid the analog to digital conversion. Then maybe I2S out into the Twisted Pear dac I'm working on. That is the advantage of DIY. But I digress.
Paul
Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers
It is a neat little unit. I was pondering today that were it not for my analog source, it would be great fun to run I2S to it and avoid the analog to digital conversion. Then maybe I2S out into the Twisted Pear dac I'm working on. That is the advantage of DIY. But I digress.
Paul
Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers
Alphas maybe not
To kind of bring the thread back on topic 🙂 :
I've spent a lot of time reading up on this and other forums the past 24 hours and it looks less likely that I will go the single amp + Alpha/Lowhter route.
I was hoping to drive two Alphas plus one Lowther per channel from a single amp to make up for the HF sensitivity of the Lowthers but somehow my math has let me down.
You see, 2 8ohm Alphas in parallel and then wired in parallel with the 8 ohm Lowther will give a load of 2 or so ohms to the amp = kaboom 😀 also, 2 8ohm Alphas in serial and then connected to the Lowther in parallel will mean too little signal going to the Alphas, correct?
Since I have the Lowthers I am pretty much forced to work out a solution with them. But, their high sensitivity is really causing me some headaches 🙁
So, bi amp seems to be my only option and because of the limited LF extension of the Lowthers in OB, I will have to consider stereo amplification for the bottom end and that could = a lot of $$$ OUCH.
Oh my, if only the Lowthers could reach say 70hz in OB I could do with one plate amp and a pair of Augies, but mono driven woofers over 70hz means a loss off stereo output. And that to me is a no no.
Cheers
Andre
To kind of bring the thread back on topic 🙂 :
I've spent a lot of time reading up on this and other forums the past 24 hours and it looks less likely that I will go the single amp + Alpha/Lowhter route.
I was hoping to drive two Alphas plus one Lowther per channel from a single amp to make up for the HF sensitivity of the Lowthers but somehow my math has let me down.
You see, 2 8ohm Alphas in parallel and then wired in parallel with the 8 ohm Lowther will give a load of 2 or so ohms to the amp = kaboom 😀 also, 2 8ohm Alphas in serial and then connected to the Lowther in parallel will mean too little signal going to the Alphas, correct?
Since I have the Lowthers I am pretty much forced to work out a solution with them. But, their high sensitivity is really causing me some headaches 🙁
So, bi amp seems to be my only option and because of the limited LF extension of the Lowthers in OB, I will have to consider stereo amplification for the bottom end and that could = a lot of $$$ OUCH.
Oh my, if only the Lowthers could reach say 70hz in OB I could do with one plate amp and a pair of Augies, but mono driven woofers over 70hz means a loss off stereo output. And that to me is a no no.
Cheers
Andre
Depending on your room size and listening levels, you can pretty much get away with one alpha per side. If you spend some $$ on the DCX2496 or the minidsp and then add a cheapo chipamp (say 3886) to drive the woofers, you will not be trying new speakers for a while.
Better yet, wait for the firstwatt B4 or B5. It is a stunning piece of gear.
Better yet, wait for the firstwatt B4 or B5. It is a stunning piece of gear.
That Decware amp that you mention on the first page shouldn't go kaboom at 2 ohms 🙂 Perhaps give Steve a message and ask if that would work okay or not...
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Well, seems the Alphas are slowly moving to the bottom of my list of pros and cons.
I've read a nice write up from Dick Olsher using a Feastrex D5nf and Augie in OB all passive driven from a single amp I believe. Very flat response from low down.
This is very intriguing. I do wonder if a Lowther/Augie combo all passive XO driven from single source, will also give the same response curve??
In any case this seems to be the solution I will go for. Trying the Augies as is, crossing over closer to 200Hz and if that fails to produce the goods maybe running bi-amped with two Dayton SA240 plate amps to ensure stereo output between 70 and 200Hz.
What do you think? Sounds like a plan? Can I start shopping 😀
I've read a nice write up from Dick Olsher using a Feastrex D5nf and Augie in OB all passive driven from a single amp I believe. Very flat response from low down.
This is very intriguing. I do wonder if a Lowther/Augie combo all passive XO driven from single source, will also give the same response curve??
In any case this seems to be the solution I will go for. Trying the Augies as is, crossing over closer to 200Hz and if that fails to produce the goods maybe running bi-amped with two Dayton SA240 plate amps to ensure stereo output between 70 and 200Hz.
What do you think? Sounds like a plan? Can I start shopping 😀
Passive crossover requires a careful match of driver efficiencies. OB requires that the woofer be significantly more efficient than the full range because of the 6dB / octave OB rolloff (unless you are going with a huge baffle).
Bi-amplification doesn't have to be hugely expensive, though. Check this amp: Parts-Express.com😀ayton APA150 150W Power Amplifier | Power amp subwoofer amp class AB amp stereo amp APA150 mono amp home theater amp sub amp low pass home theater audiophile 150 watt 150W gifts1117 gift2009 with a built-in lowpass. All you would need is a way to roll off the lows to the full-range (perhaps a passive highpass).
Bi-amplification doesn't have to be hugely expensive, though. Check this amp: Parts-Express.com😀ayton APA150 150W Power Amplifier | Power amp subwoofer amp class AB amp stereo amp APA150 mono amp home theater amp sub amp low pass home theater audiophile 150 watt 150W gifts1117 gift2009 with a built-in lowpass. All you would need is a way to roll off the lows to the full-range (perhaps a passive highpass).
This is simply wrong. A passive crossover prevents the impedance from being the parallel combination. That's its job. Also, it really depends on your amp. Many amps will drive a 2 ohm load as long as their current limit isn't reached. In other words 3 ohms @ 106 db 1 watt drivers are much different than 3 ohm @ 89 db driver, unless you are a rock concert promoter.
Doug
Thanks Doug
You will no doubt see my speaker skills are limited to car audiio, and that was about 15 years ago when I built my last LF XO. 😀
I think it is time to start looking for some good speaker/XO design software to help with the math and visualization of response curves etc.
Cheers
Andre
You will no doubt see my speaker skills are limited to car audiio, and that was about 15 years ago when I built my last LF XO. 😀
I think it is time to start looking for some good speaker/XO design software to help with the math and visualization of response curves etc.
Cheers
Andre
Just a quick update for all the kind users who've responded on this thread:
After your input and applying what I've learned from you, I have posted a more specific thread on hawthorne.com, and I am now confident, thanks to the friendly and detailed assistance from Darrel, that a pair of plate amps driving a pair of 15 inch Augies will better suit my musical taste and listening needs.
As stated earlier in this thread I seek extension and accuracy and ultimately I believe the most controllable way of achieving this will be powered Augies. Since the Augies is expected to cross over to my Lowthers between 150 and 200Hz I am concerned about driving the Augies in mono. Therefore my solution will be to drive the Augies with two Dayton SA240 plate amps (I do not have the cash to fund two Rythmiks 🙁 ).
So, when I have pics I will post them. In the mean time, I've ordered the Augies (ouch for the shipping to NZ), and I cannot wait to have them up and running 😀
Cheers
Andre
After your input and applying what I've learned from you, I have posted a more specific thread on hawthorne.com, and I am now confident, thanks to the friendly and detailed assistance from Darrel, that a pair of plate amps driving a pair of 15 inch Augies will better suit my musical taste and listening needs.
As stated earlier in this thread I seek extension and accuracy and ultimately I believe the most controllable way of achieving this will be powered Augies. Since the Augies is expected to cross over to my Lowthers between 150 and 200Hz I am concerned about driving the Augies in mono. Therefore my solution will be to drive the Augies with two Dayton SA240 plate amps (I do not have the cash to fund two Rythmiks 🙁 ).
So, when I have pics I will post them. In the mean time, I've ordered the Augies (ouch for the shipping to NZ), and I cannot wait to have them up and running 😀
Cheers
Andre
Here's another approach, combining active and passive crossovers. Troels Gravesen is very well respected in speaker DIY land and designs a variety of things. Last summer he played around with this:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/OB9.htm
He didn't have one of Nelson's nice B-series crossovers-under-development, so used a passive shelf equalizer on the woofer.
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/OB9.htm
He didn't have one of Nelson's nice B-series crossovers-under-development, so used a passive shelf equalizer on the woofer.
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