150.00 What per woofer? Rupees? 😀
I often think this sort of thing is a WRONG QUESTION. You can pretty much get ANY driver working with the right size cabinet. Question of understanding Thiele-Small parameters and particularly Qts and your amp. As in this design:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/diyaudio-com-articles/158899-arpeggio-loudspeaker.html
All things being equal, I don't see any particular advantage in 4 ohms. What you want to focus on is matching sensitivity and thinking about your cabinet size and type. tinitus does a very nice 4 ohm 12" design here with a bit of a cheapie 12" unit in sealed box approach:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/147632-classic-monitor-designs-2.html
12" units do tend to sag a bit in the long run, and rub voice coils, but you take your chances...here's some nice SEAS units to look at though. I don't know whether they have exactly what you want:
Welcome to SEAS, THE ART OF SOUND PERFECTION BY SEAS
Sorry if that is a bit annoying. You need to ask a clearer question. Otherwise it's just a vague matter of opinion you'll get back!
I'm replacing a blown 4 ohm cerwin vega woofer. I would like something that can handle more power. The original woofer was rated at 4 ohms.
What sort of cabinet? A sealed box or some whopping horn? It matters, because you need different drivers in each situation. Actually, the model number would help you find out the Qm and Qe to get something like the original. 🙂
Would you mind giving us a bit more information. It's pretty likely that without measuring the ACTUAL impedance/sensitivity of the original driver, you won't likely get the results you're expecting, though knowing some of these CW speakers, the results might be better 😉
There's also the matter of re-tuning the box.
All that aside an Eminence Deltalite 2512 could be a good starting point.
Ideally it would be good to match the characteristics of the replacement driver to the original within a reasonable ballpark. Similar Qts, Fs, Vas to match the box and tuning properly, similar impedance and coil inductance to match the x-over properly. And similar sensitivity in the intended range to match the other drivers.
The speaker cabinet is vented in the back . It is the Cerwin Vega LS 12 . 33" tall 15" wide 13" deep. The impedance on the coil with my meter is 3.7 ohms. Hope this helps.
maybe this: Goldwood GW-12PC-4 12" Heavy Duty Woofer 4 Ohm 290-332
Actually... wait, that one isn't gody enough.. Need something to to replace that orange flare from the originals: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=293-483
[fyi: that second suggestion should probably be ignored]
Actually... wait, that one isn't gody enough.. Need something to to replace that orange flare from the originals: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=293-483
[fyi: that second suggestion should probably be ignored]
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Well , you just need to replace one woofer ? I guess both .
Now you're having it crossed at about 500 Hz to the midrange .
I think that if you're looking for quality , to search for a 8 Ω speaker.
Putting a 4 Ω speaker like CW did , it gives you a sense of hearing a more powerful speaker ,and facilitates the crossover design since it employs lower inductance values for low pass ;then , it easily meets the sensibility of mid and tw . I know it may be difficult to choose a speaker that fits ...but it can be done. I would look for the Beyma 12B100 or 12BR70 ...I think the 12 B100 comes also in 4 Ω version ( or 8+8 😕 )
Now you're having it crossed at about 500 Hz to the midrange .
I think that if you're looking for quality , to search for a 8 Ω speaker.
Putting a 4 Ω speaker like CW did , it gives you a sense of hearing a more powerful speaker ,and facilitates the crossover design since it employs lower inductance values for low pass ;then , it easily meets the sensibility of mid and tw . I know it may be difficult to choose a speaker that fits ...but it can be done. I would look for the Beyma 12B100 or 12BR70 ...I think the 12 B100 comes also in 4 Ω version ( or 8+8 😕 )
It's looking to me like you have a Cerwin Vega VSW12 12" Woofer in that LS12 speaker. It also is looking like it is a startling 97dB efficiency on this similar model! 😀
I see you can rebuild them for $28 in the States:
Speaker Exchange | Cerwin Vega VSW12 Aftermarket Recone Kit
Or buy new for $135:
Speaker Exchange | Cerwin Vega VSW12 12″ Woofer LS12, E312
Honestly, I think that is easiest once you confirm the exact woofer. 🙂
Cerwin-Vegas VS-120s??? Fuse Questions - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
I see you can rebuild them for $28 in the States:
Speaker Exchange | Cerwin Vega VSW12 Aftermarket Recone Kit
Or buy new for $135:
Speaker Exchange | Cerwin Vega VSW12 12″ Woofer LS12, E312
Honestly, I think that is easiest once you confirm the exact woofer. 🙂
I'm looking at the Beyma 12G40. It's 4 ohms and requires a cabinet with 2.6 ft of volume. It's a tad over 200 bucks but seems to be what I need. When I did my cabinet volume calculation I came very close to 2.6 ft😀 What do you think?
The one I found is 8Ohm: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...-cWnAg&usg=AFQjCNFKDlM5VmQQDFKIxDJtrQCzD96_TQ
?
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i see: Beyma Speakers - Beyma 12G40 speaker - Beyma 12G40 800 watt 12" woofer for all bass and mid-bass applications. Beyma 12G40 mid-bass and other Beyma 12" speakers here.
Here's the problem:
I question the 97dB sensitivity rating on the CW speakers to begin with. I'm not aware of any commonly available dome tweeters with sensitivity better than ~93-94dB@1W1M. On dedicated sealed back mid-range designs, 97dB sensitivity is common in the 6.5" sizes, dropping down to a 4" size, I can only imagine that it's going to be a few dB LESS than 97. To top off the puzzle, they claim 28hz extension (with no information about whether that is F3 or F10 or what)... but even if that is the F10 point, I'm not aware of many (if any?) 12" drivers that could achieve an F10 of 28hz in ~2.5ft^3 that are "actually" 97dB sensitive. In fact, 97dB and an F10 of 28hz is more like 15-18" pro driver territory with about 2-4X the box space.
If it were me personally, I would assume that CW is actually using the USPL rating method (2.83V) in this case in order to bolster the number up a bit. I'd be willing to bet that the speakers are no better than 93-94dB sensitive at 1W.
Here's the problem:
I question the 97dB sensitivity rating on the CW speakers to begin with. I'm not aware of any commonly available dome tweeters with sensitivity better than ~93-94dB@1W1M. On dedicated sealed back mid-range designs, 97dB sensitivity is common in the 6.5" sizes, dropping down to a 4" size, I can only imagine that it's going to be a few dB LESS than 97. To top off the puzzle, they claim 28hz extension (with no information about whether that is F3 or F10 or what)... but even if that is the F10 point, I'm not aware of many (if any?) 12" drivers that could achieve an F10 of 28hz in ~2.5ft^3 that are "actually" 97dB sensitive. In fact, 97dB and an F10 of 28hz is more like 15-18" pro driver territory with about 2-4X the box space.
If it were me personally, I would assume that CW is actually using the USPL rating method (2.83V) in this case in order to bolster the number up a bit. I'd be willing to bet that the speakers are no better than 93-94dB sensitive at 1W.
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Gotta vote for exact replacement unless you are hot to re-engineer. Usually more time and effort than you would imagine to arrive where you began
Yep, Cerwin Vega most likely published fudged there specs. I still would like to find a 4 ohm woofer that would be better than stock. The search continues.
If you can find something in the 91-95dB sensitivity range (~94-98dB @ 2.83V) then I'm of the belief that it would match up well enough that most people would be incapable of discerning with their ears that anything was "wrong." In reality, any woofer you drop in without re-engineering the x-over is more likely to be a step away from the original "flatness" of the speaker, however, flatness not something that anyone should necessarily expect unless they are listening in a padded room. (and you know what they say about people in padded rooms!)
As far as an "improvement" over the original woofer, Something with more Xmax would be an improvement in some peoples eyes, and something with more sensitivity would be an improvement in other peoples eyes.
I guess the important thing to figure out is, what do you think "improvement" would look like?
As far as an "improvement" over the original woofer, Something with more Xmax would be an improvement in some peoples eyes, and something with more sensitivity would be an improvement in other peoples eyes.
I guess the important thing to figure out is, what do you think "improvement" would look like?
+1
And even if the woofer could handle more power, the stock xover probably cannot.
All the CVs I've heard over the years (including the entry-level models sold at a big-box store I worked at for three years in the mid 90s) have always been quite sensitive and needed little power to "get them going". That is probably because they never seemed to reach all that far down - 40Hz seems to be typical even for the 15" woofer models - which is most people need for their Gorillaz, Liverpool guys and Minor Threat CDs. But oh man, their typically low 4 ohm impedance, another "efficiency booster" (well, not really but anyway) would cause most of the receivers we sold to go into protect mode when turned past @40% on the volume knob.
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