Hello DiyAudio,
I recently acquired a pair of Duntech Sovereigns (mid-west US) and am trying to figure the feasibility to convert them from single to biamp inputs. Attached are a few pics. While I have done some basic repairs, I have limited experience with crossovers having this many components. Yikes, they are even on drawer slides.
My wife and I collect equipment from the Sov's era, back when I was school-aged, when seems all the cool kids in the magazines had more than one amp. I have some amp pairs that are not easily bridgeable that I'd love to use with the Sovereigns.
Ask any questions. I'll do my best to respond. Thanks in advance for any input.
MnM
I recently acquired a pair of Duntech Sovereigns (mid-west US) and am trying to figure the feasibility to convert them from single to biamp inputs. Attached are a few pics. While I have done some basic repairs, I have limited experience with crossovers having this many components. Yikes, they are even on drawer slides.
My wife and I collect equipment from the Sov's era, back when I was school-aged, when seems all the cool kids in the magazines had more than one amp. I have some amp pairs that are not easily bridgeable that I'd love to use with the Sovereigns.
Ask any questions. I'll do my best to respond. Thanks in advance for any input.
MnM
Hello
Sure you want to modify them? If they are in good shape and it's your first time doing this might want to use something else.
Wow the drawer is a great idea you have a schematic? Can you determine the component values? Looks like the caps are all painted. If you are talking full up Bi-amp you need to know what the voltage drives are and be prepared to make changes. If you remove 1/2 of a bandpass circuit you will typically need to make adjustments to the remaining half.
Rob 🙂
Sure you want to modify them? If they are in good shape and it's your first time doing this might want to use something else.
Wow the drawer is a great idea you have a schematic? Can you determine the component values? Looks like the caps are all painted. If you are talking full up Bi-amp you need to know what the voltage drives are and be prepared to make changes. If you remove 1/2 of a bandpass circuit you will typically need to make adjustments to the remaining half.
Rob 🙂
Last edited:
I assume you want to passively bi-amp this speaker.
Please unplug the 2 red wires and 2 black wires connected to the binding posts, measure the relative resistance of all four connectors on the crossover board with an ohmmeter and post the results.
In this way, it should be possible to determine which pair of connectors belongs to high-frequency and which pair of connectors belongs to low-frequency.
Please unplug the 2 red wires and 2 black wires connected to the binding posts, measure the relative resistance of all four connectors on the crossover board with an ohmmeter and post the results.
In this way, it should be possible to determine which pair of connectors belongs to high-frequency and which pair of connectors belongs to low-frequency.
Last edited:
Using two amp sides per speaker won't gain much (if any) headroom, the peak power demands are still the same for a given SPL.
The woofers are crossed ~300Hz, where most of the highest peak (and sustained) power is required.
What amps do you have, and what are you hoping to achieve?
Sorry that wont work.
If you look at the copper side, the two reds share a common trace, as with the two blacks also sharing a common trace. Doh.
Would've made it super nice and easy otherwise .
I see it now! Thanks @UserAbuser.
Without a schematic available, it looks like reverse engineering is the only way to determine if it can be bi-amped.
Without a schematic available, it looks like reverse engineering is the only way to determine if it can be bi-amped.
I see it as a chance for someone to earn a lot of 'internet credits' by doing the reverse work up.
You don't even need to know the component values, just where they sit in the schematic.
You don't even need to know the component values, just where they sit in the schematic.
You reallly wanna mess with this? For one thing you'll likely blow its value.. and it's hard to tell what it will sound like. It looks like they went a long way to design and make this speaker.
http://duntech.com/products/sovereign.html
The crossover is a highly complex, first order type with high power handling. The fibreglass printed circuit board is mounted in it's own separate cavity. Polypropylene capacitors are used for their stability, high voltage, low loss and low inductance, together with aircore inductors. Resistors are high powered ceramic type.
http://duntech.com/products/sovereign.html
The crossover is a highly complex, first order type with high power handling. The fibreglass printed circuit board is mounted in it's own separate cavity. Polypropylene capacitors are used for their stability, high voltage, low loss and low inductance, together with aircore inductors. Resistors are high powered ceramic type.
Yes, you start by figuring out the XO. Then you create separate inputs for the ranges you wish to amplifier separatly. Onlyworks if XO is parallel.
What you want to do is passive bi-amping, you need 2 identical amplifiers (or at least same gain). does not have the advantages of active bi-amping.
dave
What you want to do is passive bi-amping, you need 2 identical amplifiers (or at least same gain). does not have the advantages of active bi-amping.
dave
It might want a few more detailed photos, different angles and parts that aren't easy to see. It's no fun starting one of these and getting stumped half way through.
Hi Rob,
I am on the fence, whether or not to mess with them. Having read some of the other posts in this thread, I am definitely leaning towards leaving well enough alone. And you confirmed one of my biggest fears, separating the subs from the rest of the array will ultimately require additional changes. Not as simple a mod as I had hoped.
Thanks for your response,
Mike
Weltersys,
I'd like to use two Pereaux PMF-5550's. I was hoping to find a pair of Sovereigns with biamplification already included from the factory, like these: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/duntech-sovereign-2001-repair-rebuild.393895/
Not many of these hit the market around here, especially so close to home, in this condition. All but one pair I saw had the biamp option. So far, no regrets. I would like more info on the different iterations/ evolution of the Sovereigns, though. Not much info out there on the interweb. Anyone know how many were made?
Thanks for your response,
Mike
Hi All Responders,
With all of the good input you've provided, I've decided not to modify the crossovers.
Thank you for your sharing your time and knowledge,
Mike
With all of the good input you've provided, I've decided not to modify the crossovers.
Thank you for your sharing your time and knowledge,
Mike
Mike,
Monster amps, one of those has plenty of power for the pair of speakers without the bother of bi-amping.
I didn't know there was any amplifier that weighed more than the autoformer coupled Macintosh 2300!
Note the peak 1000 watt rating (what a 500 watt RMS signal reaches) for the Duntech Sovereign 2001 is for only 10ms.
10ms is the time of one cycle at 100Hz, a single wave at 20Hz is 5 times that length, 50ms.
At over 1000 watts RMS into 4 ohms, one PMF-5550 has plenty of power to short order cook any of the Sovereign's drivers without even clipping.
Art
Hi all diyers,
I've been exploring some other less invasive options for our Sov's, specifically a Pioneer D23. Any experience/ opinions?
Again, thanks for your response,
MnM
I've been exploring some other less invasive options for our Sov's, specifically a Pioneer D23. Any experience/ opinions?
Again, thanks for your response,
MnM
I presume you'll disconnect the crossover and run cables directly from the drivers to outside the box, where you'll use multiple amps fed by the D23.
Hi AllenB,
Yes, the idea is to use four amps, while bypassing the original crossovers. I just want to have some mix-n-match fun.
MnM
Yes, the idea is to use four amps, while bypassing the original crossovers. I just want to have some mix-n-match fun.
MnM
It sounds like fun. I wonder whether an equaliser on top of that wouldn't be even better.
While that would be the icing on the cake, there's a further level of control.. Imagine one driver needed it's low pass section at a different level than the high pass section. The reason would be a tilt in it's own response, and it could be addressed by dong individual section equalising.
While that would be the icing on the cake, there's a further level of control.. Imagine one driver needed it's low pass section at a different level than the high pass section. The reason would be a tilt in it's own response, and it could be addressed by dong individual section equalising.
I doubt the fixed 1/3 octave crossover frequency increments will result in smooth response in the crossover region with the Duntech Sovereigns, and the additional noise added from a 42+ year old piece may be distracting, but you may have fun "voicing" the speakers to your preference.
The D23's lack of polarity switches will require a lot of cable swapping while voicing.
I find that to be a lot less fun than flipping switches and turning knobs or pushing faders.
If you want some real voicing control from old analog gear, Klark Teknic 1/3 octave EQs are great.
The DN27 was my favorite (60mm faders with a nice center detent, Sowter inductors), but the sweepable low-cut filter on the KT DN-300 is a useful feature if dialing in big low frequency "loudness contour slopes", without flapping your speakers.
Art