Some of you have viewed and/or commented on my 3-way Peerless/SB tower build thread, but now that it's winding down and in the tweaking phase, I'm starting to think about designing a complimentary center channel speaker and a pair of wall-mounted satellites for surround duty. I'm eyeing up the Christmas/New Years holiday break to knock out the fabrication and finishing of them. I have several different thoughts rolling around in my head and I'm hoping to get some feedback from the knowledgeable folks here 🙂 I don't see a home theater sub-forum, so I hope this is the most appropriate place for this thread given that the center-channel will be multi-way.
My main towers consist of the following drivers with 200hz and 2khz 2nd-order Linkwitz-Riley crossover points:
Tweeter: SB Acoustics SB26ADC in an augerpro 5" waveguide
Mid: Peerless "Exclusive" HDS 5 1/4"
Woofer: Peerless "Exclusive" HDS 8"
Goals:
1 - Center channel will be mounted under my TV so I would like a more slender profile, with drivers likely no larger than ~4"
2 - I want the center channel and surrounds to aesthetically match the L/R mains. Since the smaller matching 4" Peerless drivers are no longer available, this likely means a black cone and black or silver phase plug (if applicable)
3 - Obviously I want the sound characteristics of the center channel to math the L/R mains reasonably well
4 - With the satellites being wall mounted, they'll be small as well. I'm thinking a 4/4.5" full-range driver might be the ticket
5 - Given that I spent WAY more time building my mains than I had planned, I want to keep the center and surrounds simpler in terms of construction and crossover design. Finding an existing Center Channel design which meets my other goals would be excellent.
Budget-wise, I'd like to try to keep it around $300 or less for the center and rear surrounds, not including enclosure materials.
My initial thoughts, which I'd like some feedback on:
Center Channel
Surrounds
I'm not looking for high listening volumes, just a complete 5.1 system. Given the wall-mounted constraint, I'm thinking a single full-range driver to simplify things (sorry if this part of the post is a bit off-topic for this sub-forum)
Future home of the center channel:
Primary listening location. Far from ideal, I know. Rear surrounds would likely be mounted on the wall behind the couch angled down and towards the center
My main towers consist of the following drivers with 200hz and 2khz 2nd-order Linkwitz-Riley crossover points:
Tweeter: SB Acoustics SB26ADC in an augerpro 5" waveguide
Mid: Peerless "Exclusive" HDS 5 1/4"
Woofer: Peerless "Exclusive" HDS 8"
Goals:
1 - Center channel will be mounted under my TV so I would like a more slender profile, with drivers likely no larger than ~4"
2 - I want the center channel and surrounds to aesthetically match the L/R mains. Since the smaller matching 4" Peerless drivers are no longer available, this likely means a black cone and black or silver phase plug (if applicable)
3 - Obviously I want the sound characteristics of the center channel to math the L/R mains reasonably well
4 - With the satellites being wall mounted, they'll be small as well. I'm thinking a 4/4.5" full-range driver might be the ticket
5 - Given that I spent WAY more time building my mains than I had planned, I want to keep the center and surrounds simpler in terms of construction and crossover design. Finding an existing Center Channel design which meets my other goals would be excellent.
Budget-wise, I'd like to try to keep it around $300 or less for the center and rear surrounds, not including enclosure materials.
My initial thoughts, which I'd like some feedback on:
Center Channel
- Horizontal MTM Layout. I realize horizontal dispersion will be impacted, but given that the listening area is relatively narrow, should I be concerned?
- SB26ADC tweeter to match the mains, using the factory faceplate
- Midrange - my initial instinct was to try to find a similar style Peerless/Tympany driver in hopes of having similar vocal characteristics to my mains. I found this Peerless 4" Fullrange which looks intriguing, however I feel like I'd be paying a premium for a full-range driver only to cross it over at ~1.5-2khz.
Midrange Option 2 - I found this Peerless 4" "woofer" which looks like it might be suitable for a crossover in the 1.5-2khz range. There is a 3.5" version available as well which looks to have decent performance up to ~3khz. Maybe use 4 of them in a MMTMM 2.5 way? The "woofer" label has me a bit worried that the midrange performance will be sub-par. Thoughts?
Midrange Option 3 - Dayton Reference Series Paper-cone 4"
Surrounds
I'm not looking for high listening volumes, just a complete 5.1 system. Given the wall-mounted constraint, I'm thinking a single full-range driver to simplify things (sorry if this part of the post is a bit off-topic for this sub-forum)
- Option 3 - The same 4" Full-range Peerless driver that I mentioned in option 1 for the center channel
- Option 2 - Dayton Reference 4" full-range
- Option 3 - Dayton 4" Coax
Future home of the center channel:
Primary listening location. Far from ideal, I know. Rear surrounds would likely be mounted on the wall behind the couch angled down and towards the center
Attachments
My question is how do the mains sound?! Those Exclusives were a gem, too bad they went away. FYI, I do have one 4" Peerless HDS Nomex for sale if you want it (non-Exclusive).
Looks like you have room for WTMW, why not that?
Looks like you have room for WTMW, why not that?
Just remembered I'm also selling a pair of 5" and 6" HDS Nomex woofers also if you want to finish out that WTMW.
So far I'm very happy with how the mains sound, although I my list of references to compare them to is very short:
*A set of MTMs with cheap dayton 8" "classic" woofers and Dayton silk dome tweeters
*A set of CSS 4.5" bookshelfs with a cheap dayton tweeter to fill in the top-end.
Very easy to listen to and they image well. They sound very smooth, just a bit imbalanced right now, as I definitely have a bit of x-over tuning left to do. Measurements show a bit of a hump around 1khz which I think is due to me improperly placing the 4ohm resistor that I have on the tweeters. Once I confirm and correct that, I suspect I'll still need to bring the tweeter down a dB or 2.
Thanks for the offer on the drivers. 5" and 6" are definitely larger than I want for the center channel, but that 4" might be an option.
You have me intrigued with the WTMW idea. That would be a 3-way I assume? I think my only hesitation would be how involved I want to get in the cabinet construction and x-over design. I am starting to be intrigued by the idea of the 4" HDS nomex with the SB26ADC an a pair of the 4" peerless "woofers" flanking them.
*A set of MTMs with cheap dayton 8" "classic" woofers and Dayton silk dome tweeters
*A set of CSS 4.5" bookshelfs with a cheap dayton tweeter to fill in the top-end.
Very easy to listen to and they image well. They sound very smooth, just a bit imbalanced right now, as I definitely have a bit of x-over tuning left to do. Measurements show a bit of a hump around 1khz which I think is due to me improperly placing the 4ohm resistor that I have on the tweeters. Once I confirm and correct that, I suspect I'll still need to bring the tweeter down a dB or 2.
Thanks for the offer on the drivers. 5" and 6" are definitely larger than I want for the center channel, but that 4" might be an option.
You have me intrigued with the WTMW idea. That would be a 3-way I assume? I think my only hesitation would be how involved I want to get in the cabinet construction and x-over design. I am starting to be intrigued by the idea of the 4" HDS nomex with the SB26ADC an a pair of the 4" peerless "woofers" flanking them.
Looking at your room, that front wall is no doubt having a detrimental effect on the sound. You can make very tasteful sound absorbers to hang on the wall behind them with 2" or 4" rigid fiberglass insulation and some breathable fabric. Get some tan burlap-ish fabric and have your kids or the local art student to paint a design on them! Then move those speakers out to the front of the stand so they aren't reflecting off it.
Yes, that front wall definitely isn't doing me any favors. The glass sliders behind the couch don't help either. The photo doesn't show it, but it's actually 12ft tall with more empty space higher up. Acoustic treatments that the wife approves of are on the to-do list, thanks for the ideas! I have a bunch of denim insulation left from building the mains so maybe I can put a large piece inside a frame wrapped with breathable cloth.
The walkway in front of the stand is a bit narrow, so pulling them out past it probably isn't going to fly, but pulling them out a bit is doable.
The walkway in front of the stand is a bit narrow, so pulling them out past it probably isn't going to fly, but pulling them out a bit is doable.
So it didn't take much prodding for me to start looking into something a bit more complex than planned 😀
Right now I'm at 33in L x 5in H x 5.75in D, Walnut front with a satin black inlay and large variable chamfers on the vertical edges to match the mains. I'm still a bit short on internal volume based on winISD recommendations for porting the 4" Peerless woofers
Ported has an F3 of around 50-55hz compared to 100hz for sealed. If I go sealed, will I miss the extra bass response for a center channel?
Right now I'm at 33in L x 5in H x 5.75in D, Walnut front with a satin black inlay and large variable chamfers on the vertical edges to match the mains. I'm still a bit short on internal volume based on winISD recommendations for porting the 4" Peerless woofers
Ported has an F3 of around 50-55hz compared to 100hz for sealed. If I go sealed, will I miss the extra bass response for a center channel?
Attachments
Fast forward a month and a half, and I'm pretty darn happy with the results. Ended up making a few adjustments to the design I last posted. I still need to take measurements of the center channe, seal up a minor leak around the left port flange, and then take relative amplitude measurements of all 5 speakers and adjust levels in my receiver.
Final decisions were as follows:
Center - SB26ADC, Peerless HDS 830872 4" mid, 2x Peerless 4" 830855 "woofers"
Surrounds - I stuck with the peerless full-range drivers linked in my initial post.
All three have solid 3/4" walnut bodies with a 1/2" MDF rear and 1"MDF front.
Augerpro - thanks for the prod in the WTMW direction. really didn't have an appreciation for the importance of good low-frequency response in a center channel. I've listened to a handful of movies so far, and it makes a huge difference when an explosion, gun shot, etc emanates from the center of the stage. Also, thanks for striking a deal on that 4" HDS mid you had!
Photos below. First is the "family". I still hadn't painted the port tubes black yet and I hadn't yet received the SB26ADC from Madisound (USPS took a cool month to deliver it!). Also shown on the rear right corner of the entertainment center is an old Aiwa HTIB speaker that I had been using (along with it's two siblings) for center and surround duties. What a difference!
Final decisions were as follows:
Center - SB26ADC, Peerless HDS 830872 4" mid, 2x Peerless 4" 830855 "woofers"
Surrounds - I stuck with the peerless full-range drivers linked in my initial post.
All three have solid 3/4" walnut bodies with a 1/2" MDF rear and 1"MDF front.
Augerpro - thanks for the prod in the WTMW direction. really didn't have an appreciation for the importance of good low-frequency response in a center channel. I've listened to a handful of movies so far, and it makes a huge difference when an explosion, gun shot, etc emanates from the center of the stage. Also, thanks for striking a deal on that 4" HDS mid you had!
Photos below. First is the "family". I still hadn't painted the port tubes black yet and I hadn't yet received the SB26ADC from Madisound (USPS took a cool month to deliver it!). Also shown on the rear right corner of the entertainment center is an old Aiwa HTIB speaker that I had been using (along with it's two siblings) for center and surround duties. What a difference!
Attachments
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