Hello,
I'm considering starting an eBay business with my father. I have the idea of building tube preamps and amplifiers (about 10 or so each month, depending on available time) and making a profit. It seems to me that the best tube circuitry has already been developed, and I don't want to go through the trouble of reinventing the wheel.
However, I do respect intellectual property and will not use proprietary circuitry.
I need an old or non-copyrighted preamp circuit which will serve as a test unit/prototype from which I can then build production units.
The idea behind this is that we have contacts in Ukraine that can supply us with surplus tubes and possibly transformers at a very low price. For instance, we can get NOS mil-spec small-signal tubes at about $2 each. No joke. If we sell these preamps at a moderate but competitive price, we can make a fairly good profit. There will be losses at first while we buy all the tools/equipment necessary, but we should eventually make money.
Thanks.
I'm considering starting an eBay business with my father. I have the idea of building tube preamps and amplifiers (about 10 or so each month, depending on available time) and making a profit. It seems to me that the best tube circuitry has already been developed, and I don't want to go through the trouble of reinventing the wheel.
However, I do respect intellectual property and will not use proprietary circuitry.
I need an old or non-copyrighted preamp circuit which will serve as a test unit/prototype from which I can then build production units.
The idea behind this is that we have contacts in Ukraine that can supply us with surplus tubes and possibly transformers at a very low price. For instance, we can get NOS mil-spec small-signal tubes at about $2 each. No joke. If we sell these preamps at a moderate but competitive price, we can make a fairly good profit. There will be losses at first while we buy all the tools/equipment necessary, but we should eventually make money.
Thanks.
I'm usually a little bit against who's trying to make money with my loved tubes 😉
But I think that if you want to have succes with your project, you have to sell something unique in design, something new. Too much old/copied stuff in the market, how would you compete with Chinese brands that are offering the same thing as yours but at half the price?
If you want to sell amps, you must be able to design them. That's my thought. Too many self-trained amp tweekers out there, so few real engineers.
Go buy TubeCAD and design a preamp and an amp.
But I think that if you want to have succes with your project, you have to sell something unique in design, something new. Too much old/copied stuff in the market, how would you compete with Chinese brands that are offering the same thing as yours but at half the price?
If you want to sell amps, you must be able to design them. That's my thought. Too many self-trained amp tweekers out there, so few real engineers.
Go buy TubeCAD and design a preamp and an amp.
dmitriy167 said:
contact me off board and I'll design one for you-for free.
I just need some more info regarding that what tube types are available for you
dmitriy167 said:
I think a good way to make this is
- first see what tubes you can get
- take some help to make amplifier circuits for those specific tubes
- wait with marketing until each circuit is tested by several people with good knowledge
- try to setup an internet group for testing and development
You can start with tube pre amplifiers and
later on complement with tube power amps.
There are some interesting ideas in the archives of Tube CAD Journal.
Some of those circuits could be a starting point.
You can also try GlassWare tube design programs.
Tube CAD Journal archives at GlassWare
TubeCAD.com
You will also find a lot of good links at Triode Guild.
Triode Guild
Giaime,
After 100 years of the tube's existence, it's a little hard to believe that tube audio has not been completely thought through. I do not plan to build exact clones of old designs, but instead use them for reference and modify them accordingly. My father and my grandfather are not self-proclaimed experts but actual engineers who know what they are talking about, and even they are reluctant to start from scratch.
As for the Chinese brands, they will always have a major disadvantage compared to small US and Europe-based companies. Their focus is not on product quality, but on maximizing profits with high production volumes and inadequate components. You see plenty of them on Ebay; they always put their amps in pretty chassis to make them look expensive, but the circuits are built poorly and do not last.
Also, I can hardly imagine one of their amplifiers in my room because they try too hard to make them look good and the amps actually end up being ugly.
If go for more of a sensible sales pitch and move away from the audio hype that is now so common, I believe that I should get a following of my own.
After 100 years of the tube's existence, it's a little hard to believe that tube audio has not been completely thought through. I do not plan to build exact clones of old designs, but instead use them for reference and modify them accordingly. My father and my grandfather are not self-proclaimed experts but actual engineers who know what they are talking about, and even they are reluctant to start from scratch.
As for the Chinese brands, they will always have a major disadvantage compared to small US and Europe-based companies. Their focus is not on product quality, but on maximizing profits with high production volumes and inadequate components. You see plenty of them on Ebay; they always put their amps in pretty chassis to make them look expensive, but the circuits are built poorly and do not last.
Also, I can hardly imagine one of their amplifiers in my room because they try too hard to make them look good and the amps actually end up being ugly.
If go for more of a sensible sales pitch and move away from the audio hype that is now so common, I believe that I should get a following of my own.
Mods, sorry for the double post.
Lineup, those links are excellent and are indeed a great starting point. They were exactly what I had in mind, since I was thinking of a common cathode or a cathode follower.
Thanks.
Lineup, those links are excellent and are indeed a great starting point. They were exactly what I had in mind, since I was thinking of a common cathode or a cathode follower.
Thanks.
dmitriy167,
I think you need to somehow make your product different. And one thing that I don't see in any of the products is a "NO-NONSENSE" approach.
Some examples:
1. Why do we have blazing hot tubes out in the open where people can get burned or the tubes get broken? How about a cage?
2. Why is it cool to to not label the knobs and controls?
3. What is cool about dual volume controls and HUGE silly knobs?
4. What ever happened to tone controls and loudness compensation?
5. How about use normal stuff and BRAG about it... NO silver wire, NO audiofool caps, NEW tubes that can be easily and cheaply replaced, NO costly and laborious point to point wiring. (BTW if you need pcb's designed lemme knoiw).
6. Oh... and how about REAL PUBLISHED specifications... just numbers... NO adjectives.
I'll bet there are alot of people that would buy tube gear if it weren't so artsy, ridiculous, and built from expensive stuff so that it is impossible to afford...
Just a thought...
I think you need to somehow make your product different. And one thing that I don't see in any of the products is a "NO-NONSENSE" approach.
Some examples:
1. Why do we have blazing hot tubes out in the open where people can get burned or the tubes get broken? How about a cage?
2. Why is it cool to to not label the knobs and controls?
3. What is cool about dual volume controls and HUGE silly knobs?
4. What ever happened to tone controls and loudness compensation?
5. How about use normal stuff and BRAG about it... NO silver wire, NO audiofool caps, NEW tubes that can be easily and cheaply replaced, NO costly and laborious point to point wiring. (BTW if you need pcb's designed lemme knoiw).
6. Oh... and how about REAL PUBLISHED specifications... just numbers... NO adjectives.
I'll bet there are alot of people that would buy tube gear if it weren't so artsy, ridiculous, and built from expensive stuff so that it is impossible to afford...
Just a thought...
poobah said:
Because the people who buy them like to let others know about it!.
So few knobs it's not hard to remember what they are 😀
Presumably to try and look 'different'. True enough that dual controls (particularly log ones) don't track well - but probably better than you can set two individual ones by ear?.
Should be switched out anyway?.
You'll never get a job in marketing!.
They can't publish specs! - the specs are going to be pretty poor, it's not about specs, it's about expensive pretty devices that light up
Nigel,
THAT IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!
Success in small business means differentiating your product and avoiding the saturated parts of a market. No one is taking this "angle" in tubes.
Mr. Pass has an angle similar to this... ZEN... akin to NO-NONSENSE... only he could truely testify to the success of it all I suppose.
But, I'm afraid you missed my suggestion entirely.
And, I've never needed a job in marketing... honesty and quality work have served me well enough.
😀
THAT IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!
Success in small business means differentiating your product and avoiding the saturated parts of a market. No one is taking this "angle" in tubes.
Mr. Pass has an angle similar to this... ZEN... akin to NO-NONSENSE... only he could truely testify to the success of it all I suppose.
But, I'm afraid you missed my suggestion entirely.
And, I've never needed a job in marketing... honesty and quality work have served me well enough.
😀
Hey poobah:
I'm with you. Just good engineering, parts and relibility!
You don't see that much any more.
RonL
http://www.nashaudio.com
I'm with you. Just good engineering, parts and relibility!
You don't see that much any more.
RonL
http://www.nashaudio.com
I said akin (similar) to ZEN... not zen. I do not personally follow the ZEN design philosophy. I cannot criticize his marketing angle though and don't care to critcize his ZEN designs.
My idea of NO-NONSENSE tube gear would employ the more modern methods & tricks... using sand where it makes sense to... working for lower distortion without high levels of NFB. etc...
My idea of NO-NONSENSE tube gear would employ the more modern methods & tricks... using sand where it makes sense to... working for lower distortion without high levels of NFB. etc...
poobah said:
POOBAH!!! STOP THERE!!!!
Keep those advices for when I'll start a business!!! These are EXACTLY my beliefs. That's exactly my philosophy. 😉
rlaury,
So... I am NOT nuts here?????
I think there are all of people that would like a tube amp... but run from the cost and the lunatics that dribble senseless adjectives selling them.
Also, the dumb enginering... I've never had the luxury of putting a knob on anything that didn't have a label!
So... I am NOT nuts here?????
I think there are all of people that would like a tube amp... but run from the cost and the lunatics that dribble senseless adjectives selling them.
Also, the dumb enginering... I've never had the luxury of putting a knob on anything that didn't have a label!
Giaime my friend,
This will be MY business... stay off the forums and study your math... maybe I will give you a job!
This will be MY business... stay off the forums and study your math... maybe I will give you a job!
I'm with choky and poobah here. I think it's time that someone gave tube equipment more functionality. My guess is that the whole "purist" movement came when manufacturing standards were lower and less was indeed more in terms of sound quality. Nowadays, components are much higher quality than they used to be, and so they should affect the sound much less. Having said that, I don't want to overload the design with useless functions.
Reliability and ease of use will be top priorities. Safety will come second, and fit and finish will come third. A removeable cage made of perforated sheet metal will be necessary for the hot tubes, and so will other safety precoutions. I don't want to get sued because some idiot got burned or electrocuted.
Specs will be published. With a good design, they might even be impressive. Naturally, the circuit will never approach an SS amp in THD or noise floor, but audiophiles know that already, so it's not a problem.
As far as capacitors and resistors go, they would be high quality withoug being a budget strain. Vishay metal film resistors are actually affordable, and so are small poly film caps. I don't believe in $300 capacitors. They are a scam and an embarassment to the industry.
Reliability and ease of use will be top priorities. Safety will come second, and fit and finish will come third. A removeable cage made of perforated sheet metal will be necessary for the hot tubes, and so will other safety precoutions. I don't want to get sued because some idiot got burned or electrocuted.
Specs will be published. With a good design, they might even be impressive. Naturally, the circuit will never approach an SS amp in THD or noise floor, but audiophiles know that already, so it's not a problem.
As far as capacitors and resistors go, they would be high quality withoug being a budget strain. Vishay metal film resistors are actually affordable, and so are small poly film caps. I don't believe in $300 capacitors. They are a scam and an embarassment to the industry.
Quote:
I'm considering starting an eBay business with my father. I have the idea of building tube preamps and amplifiers (about 10 or so each month, depending on available time) and making a profit. It seems to me that the best tube circuitry has already been developed, and I don't want to go through the trouble of reinventing the wheel.
However, I do respect intellectual property and will not use proprietary circuitry.
I need an old or non-copyrighted preamp circuit which will serve as a test unit/prototype from which I can then build production units.
**
About 15 years ago roughly I shared the same enthusiasm for subwoofer amplifiers, electronic crossovers, and custom designed subwoofers. I started a small business that made the claim to custom design to any size restrictions and did so with success.
I believe it also takes something special that other manufacturers don't have in order to gain the public support. Start with something basic and build on that. Take a look at some of the small kit makers that have gained fame over the last few years. Make a proto type and send it around to different people and record their comments and suggestions.
It takes drive and a good plan and I am sure you have both. There are numerious people here that are highly educated that I'm sure would help.
Best of Luck
I'm considering starting an eBay business with my father. I have the idea of building tube preamps and amplifiers (about 10 or so each month, depending on available time) and making a profit. It seems to me that the best tube circuitry has already been developed, and I don't want to go through the trouble of reinventing the wheel.
However, I do respect intellectual property and will not use proprietary circuitry.
I need an old or non-copyrighted preamp circuit which will serve as a test unit/prototype from which I can then build production units.
**
About 15 years ago roughly I shared the same enthusiasm for subwoofer amplifiers, electronic crossovers, and custom designed subwoofers. I started a small business that made the claim to custom design to any size restrictions and did so with success.
I believe it also takes something special that other manufacturers don't have in order to gain the public support. Start with something basic and build on that. Take a look at some of the small kit makers that have gained fame over the last few years. Make a proto type and send it around to different people and record their comments and suggestions.
It takes drive and a good plan and I am sure you have both. There are numerious people here that are highly educated that I'm sure would help.
Best of Luck
poobah said:Giaime my friend,
This will be MY business... stay off the forums and study your math... maybe I will give you a job!
Do what you want, I will be happy to have a tube amp company, but happier if I will work for a tube amp company!!!
You organize and I desing, that's obvious 😉
You're already the second one that is offering me a job with tubes... and I wouldn't say who is the first, but just... let's say he's very good 😉
Giaime,
My company will be about 6550 PP amplifiers... about 350 kiloWatt... with 3 phase diesel for PSU. This for bass guitar amplifiers. I have suffered years for my music... it's time everyone else suffered too.
My company will be about 6550 PP amplifiers... about 350 kiloWatt... with 3 phase diesel for PSU. This for bass guitar amplifiers. I have suffered years for my music... it's time everyone else suffered too.
poobah said:Giaime,
My company will be about 6550 PP amplifiers... about 350 kiloWatt... with 3 phase diesel for PSU. This for bass guitar amplifiers. I have suffered years for my music... it's time everyone else suffered too.
Nothing that can't be done. I see you are more oriented towards cheesy tubes, oh what a pity... I have to discart that 2kW 833PP design that I made for you
(I'm also into guitar and bass amps, so no fear to do that!!!)
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