hello!
i am looking for a dsp solution for my 4-way PA system.
this cheap behringer/minidsp stuff just wont do it for me...
it needs to be reliable, sound good, have digital in, iir+fir capabilities, and 8 digital outputs.
it can be a naked board, doesnt have to be in a case.
would be nice if price is under 3k, but im open to all price ranges.
danville signal seems to have boards that fit these specs, however i am a bit overwhelmed by their descriptions, i am not sure i should order one without understanding any of their user manuals.
can anyone point me in the right direction?
cheers, lisette
i am looking for a dsp solution for my 4-way PA system.
this cheap behringer/minidsp stuff just wont do it for me...
it needs to be reliable, sound good, have digital in, iir+fir capabilities, and 8 digital outputs.
it can be a naked board, doesnt have to be in a case.
would be nice if price is under 3k, but im open to all price ranges.
danville signal seems to have boards that fit these specs, however i am a bit overwhelmed by their descriptions, i am not sure i should order one without understanding any of their user manuals.
can anyone point me in the right direction?
cheers, lisette
my italian is not great, but im pretty sure this has 0 digital inputs, 0 digital outputs and i doubt it has fir capabilities...
Hi, Lisette!
I doubt you can find such a great stuff.
There are DBX Driverack 4800 having 4x8 matrix and digital I/O, but it lacks FIR.
There are Symetrix Symnet 8x8 having FIR onboard, but it lacks digital I/O.
There are Xilica XP-4080 or XD-4080 having FIR, but also lacks digital I/O.
So, 99% you will have to go on the slippery road of DIY stuff.
Check easy to implement ADAU1452 building block on the ready PCB. There are plenty on ebay for something like $50.
It have plenty of digital I/O, can run up to 10k FIR taps and easily tunes with a SigmaDSP software bundle.
Have you thought about going with an amplifier system with built in dsp such as Powersoft X8, Linear Research, XTA etc, options for dante and more?
You can get digital input to a Symetrix Symnet 8x8 using a Symetrix DIGIO (I use this) or Symetrix cobranet (I tried this before and never got it working well). If your budget is 3k though Symetrix latest models support Dante, you might need to modify the cooling though for home use as they have a fan. The 8x8 has a very loud fan and generates a fair bit of heat, I have extensivly modified mine to make it silent.
QSC basis would be another cheap option, you only have to build/buy adapters for the dataports. Or with more budget a 110f. Linear research ASC 48 is a high quality option if the fixed signal flow works for you.
QSC basis would be another cheap option, you only have to build/buy adapters for the dataports. Or with more budget a 110f. Linear research ASC 48 is a high quality option if the fixed signal flow works for you.
thanks for all the great advice!
I found a dsp engineer who will help me build the dsp of my dreams 🙂 of course this will take a few months so in the mean time i will go with the cheapest decent option i could find, which will probably be the t.racks FIR DSP 408, which is only 500€ and supposedly does the job quite well. ill start a new thread for the DSP development once we get started...
cheers
I found a dsp engineer who will help me build the dsp of my dreams 🙂 of course this will take a few months so in the mean time i will go with the cheapest decent option i could find, which will probably be the t.racks FIR DSP 408, which is only 500€ and supposedly does the job quite well. ill start a new thread for the DSP development once we get started...
cheers
For €3000 you should be able to buy a new Dante-capable Linea Research ASC48, or an Apex Audio Intelli-X3.
those linea and apex units do seem to have all desired features... maybe i'll try them out and reconsider going the diy route...
that alldsp is missing fir filters...
@kipman725 can you explain when i would need a floatingpoint dsp? is it only that absurdly high dynamic range? i think 118dBa should suffice for PA application... or will the filters need that additional precision? not sure how a lack of precision will influence the sound...
cheers
edit: oh i just reread you wrote "fixed signal flow", nothing about fixed point calculations, my bad
@kipman725 can you explain when i would need a floatingpoint dsp? is it only that absurdly high dynamic range? i think 118dBa should suffice for PA application... or will the filters need that additional precision? not sure how a lack of precision will influence the sound...
cheers
edit: oh i just reread you wrote "fixed signal flow", nothing about fixed point calculations, my bad
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@lisette I can address both points:
Floating point: This avoids numerical overflow in the DSP algorithms, you only have to worry about clipping the inputs and outputs. Wheras in a fixed point DSP you can internally clip so have to think more about the gain structure inside the DSP. Its not esential (the basis is fixed point) but I would regard it as a very desirable feature. If going for ultimate audio quality you should also be aware that 24bit fixed point numbers lose precision in a 32bit floating point system and so very high quality DSPs will use 40bits or greater internaly for their floating point. Symetrix use 40bit floats in the 8x8, double precision (64bit) floats are also pretty common. Practically though the limits of A/D and D/A are around 20bit ENOB so single or double precision probably doesn't matter.
Fixed signal flow processors have predefined blocks with predefined connections from input to output. If you look at the manual for the Linea Research ASC48 you can see this calculation flow on one of the pages. Processors from Biamp, Symetrix, QSC and other manufacturers allow you to construct your own flow chart of DSP blocks from input to output so are far more flexible. Whether this is useful to you depends on what you are doing. IE if you want to do things like side chain limiting excursion your probably going to need one of the latter processors.
Floating point: This avoids numerical overflow in the DSP algorithms, you only have to worry about clipping the inputs and outputs. Wheras in a fixed point DSP you can internally clip so have to think more about the gain structure inside the DSP. Its not esential (the basis is fixed point) but I would regard it as a very desirable feature. If going for ultimate audio quality you should also be aware that 24bit fixed point numbers lose precision in a 32bit floating point system and so very high quality DSPs will use 40bits or greater internaly for their floating point. Symetrix use 40bit floats in the 8x8, double precision (64bit) floats are also pretty common. Practically though the limits of A/D and D/A are around 20bit ENOB so single or double precision probably doesn't matter.
Fixed signal flow processors have predefined blocks with predefined connections from input to output. If you look at the manual for the Linea Research ASC48 you can see this calculation flow on one of the pages. Processors from Biamp, Symetrix, QSC and other manufacturers allow you to construct your own flow chart of DSP blocks from input to output so are far more flexible. Whether this is useful to you depends on what you are doing. IE if you want to do things like side chain limiting excursion your probably going to need one of the latter processors.
Of course, being able to change the order of processing may also be a hindrance, since it means you’re responsible for designing a good setup within the unit’s processing thresholds. The Linea DSP has overshoot, excursion, and thermal limiters in its fixed signal flow already.
The software isn’t great and it’s been coming on five years since I was promised a replacement was coming soon, but it’s perfectly functional.
The software isn’t great and it’s been coming on five years since I was promised a replacement was coming soon, but it’s perfectly functional.