Isn't the horn size here relative to the thread?
The 18 Sound XT1464 seems like the best candidate. I like the Ciare pr614 too. Dario Cinanni's research looks very interesting.
Would adding a baffle extend response a bit? What size and shape?
The Azura AH-425 looks like a good candidate too, for more money, and better performance. Doesn't need a baffle. Performance may be in the ear and taste of the listener.
I use the XT1464 horn with Radian 951 drivers. This is a fairly recent purchase. I'm still adjusting. Still playing with crossovers. I claim no expertise. Need to learn much more. Current crossover iterations are approximately LR4/LR4 at 650HZ, and LR8/LR8 at 700Hz. Acoustically. I like both in their preliminary form. No baffle yet. Perhaps I have tin ears.
Thanks to all, especially docali and mark100, for their comments.
The 18 Sound XT1464 seems like the best candidate. I like the Ciare pr614 too. Dario Cinanni's research looks very interesting.
Would adding a baffle extend response a bit? What size and shape?
The Azura AH-425 looks like a good candidate too, for more money, and better performance. Doesn't need a baffle. Performance may be in the ear and taste of the listener.
I use the XT1464 horn with Radian 951 drivers. This is a fairly recent purchase. I'm still adjusting. Still playing with crossovers. I claim no expertise. Need to learn much more. Current crossover iterations are approximately LR4/LR4 at 650HZ, and LR8/LR8 at 700Hz. Acoustically. I like both in their preliminary form. No baffle yet. Perhaps I have tin ears.
Thanks to all, especially docali and mark100, for their comments.
I’ve been messing a bit with the 4594ND on the XT1464 over the last week and I can’t say I’m very impressed yet. But I need to play with it a whole lot more before forming a fair opinion.
How do these modern “small” horns compare to some of yesteryears’ stars like Altec 1005B, Yuichi A290 (and its downscaled brethren A450/A480), JBL 2384 etc?
How do these modern “small” horns compare to some of yesteryears’ stars like Altec 1005B, Yuichi A290 (and its downscaled brethren A450/A480), JBL 2384 etc?
Mark, this is just of the midrange and not the combined response together with the tweeter, right?
NiToNi, correct. maybe this will help more..
Here's sets of raw polars for the XT1464, with the bms4594he and b&c464..
Lower coax sections; b&c464 on top
Upper coax sections; b&c 464 on top
Are you having any better luck with the XT1464?
I really like the way it sounds and cleans up after processing.
Here's the b&c's processed polars
Here's sets of raw polars for the XT1464, with the bms4594he and b&c464..
Lower coax sections; b&c464 on top
Upper coax sections; b&c 464 on top
Are you having any better luck with the XT1464?
I really like the way it sounds and cleans up after processing.
Here's the b&c's processed polars
Thanks, Mark - very helpful.
Interesting how the mid section in both drivers have a depression around 4-5kHz followed by a peak at 6kHz, could that be horn related? This is less of an issue with the DCX464 since the tweeter extends low enough but the 4594 seems like it could struggle to fill out and blend this region nicely. I will take some proper measurements myself for comparison but for now do you have the processed polars also for the 4594HE/XT1464? That would be very interesting to see.
This week's been too busy for audio but from my listening so far, I do think there's a certain horn colouration to the sound that I'm not used to (I'm not really a horn guy) and I'd venture to say that the combo lacks the level of resolution and air I'm looking for - but since subjective perception of the latter is so tied in with the top octaves, I need to process the response before passing any opinions really. OTOH it may be that the limited directivity/dispersion won't bring the sort of openness that I'm conditioned to and like, we'll see.
Do you have any direct experience with the 4594HE vs the older 4594ND that I have? Same with this particular driver on any of the larger "audiophile" horns like A290 etc versus these pro horns?
Interesting how the mid section in both drivers have a depression around 4-5kHz followed by a peak at 6kHz, could that be horn related? This is less of an issue with the DCX464 since the tweeter extends low enough but the 4594 seems like it could struggle to fill out and blend this region nicely. I will take some proper measurements myself for comparison but for now do you have the processed polars also for the 4594HE/XT1464? That would be very interesting to see.
This week's been too busy for audio but from my listening so far, I do think there's a certain horn colouration to the sound that I'm not used to (I'm not really a horn guy) and I'd venture to say that the combo lacks the level of resolution and air I'm looking for - but since subjective perception of the latter is so tied in with the top octaves, I need to process the response before passing any opinions really. OTOH it may be that the limited directivity/dispersion won't bring the sort of openness that I'm conditioned to and like, we'll see.
Do you have any direct experience with the 4594HE vs the older 4594ND that I have? Same with this particular driver on any of the larger "audiophile" horns like A290 etc versus these pro horns?
Hi NiToNi,
Yep, i'm sure there are some horn related issues superimposing on both CDs.
I've kinda learned not to care about the issues provided they can be processed out decently both on and off axis.
I tried to find exact same processed measurements of the bms 4594he on the xt1464 like shown for dcx464 at end of #24.
But closest i could find is the 4594he/xt1464 box, on top of another box with a 12" cone.
So the following graph includes the section below the CD.
Xover to the bms is at 650Hz, and 96dB/oct, so above 650Hz it's all 4594he and xt1464.
15 degree increments. Black is 0 deg of course.
Personally, i don't even bother listening to any driver/speaker, Cd/horn, etc....until processing is in place. Listening first, seems to be a waste of time that often provides confusion and doubt . But that's just me....
Anyway, the only other experience i have with bms CD's is with the 4593. it was quite similar to the 4594he, just lacking a small bit of openness.
As to other horns, except for a big DDS and the b&C ME464 and the jbl2384, all the commercial horns have been smaller types.
Well, i should add the conical synergy horns i've made too.
Honestly though, i find good processing seems to matter at least as much as which horn, if not more....
Good luck !!
Yep, i'm sure there are some horn related issues superimposing on both CDs.
I've kinda learned not to care about the issues provided they can be processed out decently both on and off axis.
I tried to find exact same processed measurements of the bms 4594he on the xt1464 like shown for dcx464 at end of #24.
But closest i could find is the 4594he/xt1464 box, on top of another box with a 12" cone.
So the following graph includes the section below the CD.
Xover to the bms is at 650Hz, and 96dB/oct, so above 650Hz it's all 4594he and xt1464.
15 degree increments. Black is 0 deg of course.
Personally, i don't even bother listening to any driver/speaker, Cd/horn, etc....until processing is in place. Listening first, seems to be a waste of time that often provides confusion and doubt . But that's just me....
Anyway, the only other experience i have with bms CD's is with the 4593. it was quite similar to the 4594he, just lacking a small bit of openness.
As to other horns, except for a big DDS and the b&C ME464 and the jbl2384, all the commercial horns have been smaller types.
Well, i should add the conical synergy horns i've made too.
Honestly though, i find good processing seems to matter at least as much as which horn, if not more....
Good luck !!