Logic vs. emotion

[jkeny]

Of course the writers of a scientific paper that use in it's title the term "A potential health problem that can be solved" (emphasis is mine) & whose stated objective is

To determine whether commercially available plastic resins and products, including baby bottles and other products advertised as BPA-free, release chemicals having EA.

would be aware of the evidence that no human health problem has been proven for their claimed EA agents. They would also be aware of a paper by the Advisory Committee of the German Society of Toxicology "Critical evaluation of key evidence on the human health hazards of exposure to bisphenol A." - a study of more than 5000 safety-related studies that have been published on bisphenol A (BPA) & the conclusion that

"Overall, the Committee concluded that the current TDI for BPA is adequately justified and that the available evidence indicates that BPA exposure represents no noteworthy risk to the health of the human population, including newborns and babies."

So not only have you not shown any connection to human health issues for your EA agents but even BPA has been shown not to have health implications for humans based on the current tolerable daily intake value (TDI) of 0.05 mg/kg body weight [bw]/day, derived by the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA),

BTW, The word potential is dropped in the title of the supplementary material - it reads
"Most Plastic Products Release Estrogenic Chemicals:
A Health Problem That Can Be Solved"

Which title is correct or are you intentionally trying to confuse the reader?

 

[SY]

Scientists publishing in leading journals assume that the readers of their papers can read and comprehend, can refer to citations, and have a basic understanding of science.

 

[abraxalito]

Scientists publishing in leading journals assume that the readers of their papers can read and comprehend, can refer to citations, and have a basic understanding of science.

Pretty much the point you made before which was wrong by virtue of its irrelevance. Or is there some new nuance in this which wasn't in your earlier deflection? Perhaps the 'can refer to citations' part - care to elucidate?

 

[jkeny]

"Maybe it's my narrow-minded, parochial, reactionary viewpoint, but it strikes me that the existence of a phenomenon has to be verified before we work ourselves into a lather speculating on a cause."

 

[SY]

Wise words. A gold star to whomever you quoted.

 

[jkeny]

Yes, indeed, I agree completely - wise words a gold star to SY, the start pupil
.
LOL. It was of course you SY referring to a claim by Time magazine that milk may be causing American girls to enter puberty much earlier. http://www.myspeakerscorner.com/forum/spawn.php?qv=1&fn=2&tid=8380

You go on to say

It's interesting, and sadly typical, that the Time article spends only a few sentences explaining that there's no reliable data to support the notion that girls are "developing" earlier than ever, gives one reliable datum that tends to falsify the notion (age of onset of menarche is stable), then fills page after page with anecdotes and "explanations" for something that may very well not exist."

 

[SY]

Yes, the Time piece was quite poor as I recall (that was 11 years ago). I don't remember the quote, but I'm happy with the writing. However, Time has to write articles that can be understood by dimwits; scientists in journals fortunately don't have that restriction.

 

[jkeny]

Yes & you are correct to point out it's flaws. Similarly, in your paper subtitled "A health problem that can be solved" you failed to establish the linkage between EA & health issues & directly contradicted your "existence of a phenomenon has to be verified before we work ourselves into a lather speculating on a cause."?

It really does go to the heart of this thread & the subjectivity of science!

 

[SY]

You either haven't read or haven't understood the scientific paper. I can't help you with that.

Can I interest you in a subscription to Time?

 

[jkeny]

It's ironic in a thread entitled "logic Vs Emotion" that your replies are emotion-laden rather than logical. That paper really is a good example of what is nowadays considered perhaps acceptable practise in science by some.

I'll leave it up to the readers to analyse the paper for themselves but for those who aren't interested in wasting that much time, I have given a link to some of the flaws that are starkly outlined here It's the Rheo Thing: "Estrogen Activity in Plastics" Report Has Many Flaws

 

[cliffforrest]

What is your motive for bringing this up?

Patently nothing to do with audio and you seem to me to be pursuing some personal issue with SY.

Let it go.

 

[abraxalito]

What is your motive for bringing this up?

Since when have people's motives been relevant to discussion on this forum?

Patently nothing to do with audio and you seem to me to be pursuing some personal issue with SY.

On the former, this is called 'Everything Else' and the thread is 'Logic vs Emotion' so examples of that in real life situations are most certainly germane. On the latter - even if the issue is a personal one (there's evidence for that on both sides going back months if not years), there are issues of evidence and science which have been raised and not received anything approaching reasonable answers.

Let it go.

Let what go? Its another rich irony that you asked for citations and now you don't like the way the thread is headed?

 

[jkeny]

What is your motive for bringing this up

?

Examples can be found of science papers using emotional language & fear-mongering as a means to convince it's readers of a yet to be proven connection........

Citations?

You asked, I responded!

Patently nothing to do with audio and you seem to me to be pursuing some personal issue with SY.

It's pertinent to the topic being discussed in the thread & is a fine example, none of which has been audio related since the thread started! Your response is not logical - it's emotional

 

[SY]

.

 

[jkeny]

Can't make out a lot of the words in your picture - care to elucidate?

 

[SY]

I need to explain to an Irishman what a potato is?

 

[jkeny]

Yes, potatoes are deeply ingrained in our national psyche, both from the famine & from poitín (an alcoholic brew based on potatoes - found in most nations but with a different vegetable or fruit as the basis).

But what is the meaning of this pic?

 

[SY]

What do you think the meaning is?

 

[jkeny]

Not playing this game! Do you always answer a straightforward question with evasion?

 

[SY]

Can you elaborate on that?