Lithium battery causes deadly fire

I am a retired automotive engineer, the company I worked for has had electric and hybrid vehicles since 2009. So I have 10 years of experience with lithium ion battery packs, I have tremendous respect for the dangers involved.
Yet I want to build a phono preamp powered by batteries, + - 12vdc rails. I am torn between having a quiet power supply and deeply concerned about charging batteries in my home. I have no interest in sitting watching batteries charge to make sure they don't overheat.
I have absolutely no DIY lithium ion packs, not because I am not confident that I can design a safe one, but because I don't have the test resources to assure it would be safe under absolutely all circumstances.

SLA and LIFePo batteries are much safer, that said I am not sold on the idea that battery supplies are quieter than a well designed linear supply.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wiseoldtech
I am a retired automotive engineer, the company I worked for has had electric and hybrid vehicles since 2009. So I have 10 years of experience with lithium ion battery packs, I have tremendous respect for the dangers involved.
Yet I want to build a phono preamp powered by batteries, + - 12vdc rails. I am torn between having a quiet power supply and deeply concerned about charging batteries in my home. I have no interest in sitting watching batteries charge to make sure they don't overheat.
The dangerous cells are LiPo. They are formulated for high current draw, so they are especially reactive. A single battery can discharge at ~100 amps for a short burst, which is totally unnecessary for most applications.

If you want 12v, just use old fashioned lead acid/ deep cycle battery. There is no reason you need to use lithium cells, unless you have a particular demanding application needing high current and light weight.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JMFahey
En los años 80, cuando comencé a trabajar, un colega me dijo que su padre trabajaba en el diseño de baterías. No tengo idea de la química, pero almacenan una enorme cantidad de energía. Le pregunté "suena genial, ¿por qué no los venden?" Había una salvación, cuando se sobrecargaban, no se quemaban simplemente, explotaban . Equivalente a un cartucho de dinamita, dijo. Supongo que no había forma de que los humanos (o algún circuito electrónico...) se preocuparan por la carga, ¡o de lo contrario!
Recuerdo esos tiempos, "toma este, dale una carga rápida y estás en camino otra vez"
Las cargas rápidas limitaban la vida útil y el tipo volvía al poco tiempo. "Toma uno nuevo, será mejor"
This would be a normal remark in a manual for equipment with NiMH batteries and a standard charger. For Li-ion, the charger itself should prevent overcharging.





What is it, 35 or 40 degrees Celsius maximum ambient temperature during charging?
A clarification here. I attached in post 30 the characteristics of an electric skateboard that I found randomly on the web.
It IS NOT the flyer for the skateboard in the tragedy.
There are Chinese products (the web address of the brochure that I attached reveals the origin) that are very bad, of medium quality and very good, but importers generally choose those with the lowest price to optimize their profits. I don't think many countries regulate skateboards, maybe the FCC in the USA?
Unfortunately for the survivors of this tragedy, I believe that here they would never win a lawsuit against the importers and/or manufacturers (be they of any brand and origin) even if it could be proven that it was a defective product.
 
Neuro stimulators?
Those need to be really reliable.
My mom had a Medtronics Activa PC system installed, Parkinson's DBS surgery done, then after it got depleted, changed to Scene-Ray from China.
Brain leads were not changed.
Better features. Bigger capacity battery, it is a modified Kinetra.
medtronic did not have proper UVLO on that system ,and blamed the patient if they did not regularly charge the stimulator. it was designed after I left medtronic. would not have happended if I was still there..
 
PC is Primary Cell, and RC is Rechargeable Cell.

Aged people often forget to recharge, which is why the Chinese one was installed, life is 8-9 years, the Medtronic PC lasts 4-5 years, smaller battery in Medtronic.

The Activa RC is almost double in price, lasts 10-11 years, so not much point in older people with low current needed.
It is good for younger patients / high current settings.
You have to charge a collar type thing from the wall, then wear the collar, so it charges the unit inside the body.
We have frequent power failures, another issue not faced in Western countries.

What is UVLO?
I did not understand.
 
I worked with the medtronic rep, and saw the first activa patient in nl in 1993, her daugher was in the same day-care as mine. my daughter is now 32...

at the time the medtronic device was just a rebranded itrel neurostimulator. I designed a newer version with a dual output stage that could stimulate independently 2 sites. (US6125300) took them too long to convert it into a product. later medtronic moved to the rechargeable version with the known UVLO (Under Voltage Lock Out) problem
 
So our doctors' team was correct in their decision not to use Medtronic RC devices.
Abbott and Boston Scientific are sometimes seen, Medtronic dominates the Indian market for DBS systems, partly because the competition had mostly rechargeable (much more expensive) systems.

They also use similar devices for pain management, it seems.
 
The pain management market was disrupted by nevro ( i did the very first protounit), as they purchased the HF stim patents from enteromedics. stimulating a nerve at HF really stops the nerve conduction while LF stimulation only distracts the nerve, like rubbing your elbow when you bumped it. that is also why only a small percentage of the patients reports succesful therapy over time.
 
nevro got past the FDA by saying the product was the same as the others, only a bit higher frequency. the underlying principles are totally different though, but that takes so much more time to explain to the FDA. that is what enteromedics (I designed all their implants) experienced. if you say this is completely different, FDA ( mostly al pharmacists) leans back and says: pls explain.
all patients prefer nevro over the existing bunch. the nevro patents have not yet expired... most pain stimulators are not designed for HF ( I mean in the 2 - 10kHz range) . Even the neuro stim standard (driven by medtronic itrel products) limited the frequency to about 200 Hz.
 
Implant lead design may be different, and shielding the wires for HF may be needed.
Can be done though...
Seems a bigger market than DBS.
Told a surgeon
He has done a lot of DBS lead placements, more than 400 at last count.
Waiting for his response

Activa patents are from 97 98...expired now.
Boston and St Jude patents were for directional electrodes, that got around Medtronic patents
Original research for DBS was done in France.
 
Last edited:
A couple years ago vape pencils were blowing up. In the smokers pocket =/. Reports said it was due to batteries that were "customized" at home by the smoker.

I heard similarly about personal mobile commuters. Batteries that got customized, or modified if you prefer, in order to charge faster. The result was some exploding batteries.

Certain things shouldn't be tampered with or they go boom real good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JMFahey
Implant lead design may be different, and shielding the wires for HF may be needed.
Can be done though...
Seems a bigger market than DBS.
Told a surgeon
He has done a lot of DBS lead placements, more than 400 at last count.
Waiting for his response

Activa patents are from 97 98...expired now.
Boston and St Jude patents were for directional electrodes, that got around Medtronic patents
Original research for DBS was done in France.
yep, it was dr Benabid, in grenoble, and he developed the therapy together with my colleagues at medtronic maastricht. I also attended one implant in nl. all the stereotactic procedures, MRI etc. In holland the DBS implant is less popular, as the commerialized healtcare hospitals make more money doing other things; the DBS implant takes much time on a surgical room, plus 2 times MRI. btw I designed the complete HW for the onwd.com implant, originally intended to help paraplegics to restore walking. checkout gregoire courtine...