Yes, I've been down south as far as Florida.
And visited towns in Virginia, West Va, Maryland, Georgia, etc.
The people down there are basically settled in, and have long-time values that they worship strongly.
And quite friendly and hospitable from what I gathered.
I wouldn't say they "hate" such things as electric vehicles, more like they're content with "things the way they've been".
And they dislike intrusion into their established ways of living.
They also are notably protective of their interests. - certainly not a bad thing.
Oh sure, you occasionally get those "redneck" types that pull pranks and have mischievous nature, but those types are everywhere.
Lithium batteries are less polluting of the environment.
And if they are properly discarded in reception centers (practically none exist here, unfortunately) they can be used and recycled, which is a great advantage over conventional batteries with combinations of nickel, cadmium, lead, etc.
Just one of these batteries pollutes 600,000 liters of fresh water. I've seen guys throw them into the Rio de la Plata 😡 from their fancy boats, you know, girls, alcohol and portable music players. Bad combination for the ecology.
I use rechargeables as much as possible, the ecological benefit is important because of the number of times they can be recharged.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envir...ostly.-,Composition,to be non-hazardous waste.
And if they are properly discarded in reception centers (practically none exist here, unfortunately) they can be used and recycled, which is a great advantage over conventional batteries with combinations of nickel, cadmium, lead, etc.
Just one of these batteries pollutes 600,000 liters of fresh water. I've seen guys throw them into the Rio de la Plata 😡 from their fancy boats, you know, girls, alcohol and portable music players. Bad combination for the ecology.
I use rechargeables as much as possible, the ecological benefit is important because of the number of times they can be recharged.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envir...ostly.-,Composition,to be non-hazardous waste.
Cars don't have to be electric to catch fire. The most common causes over here for conventional cars seem to be arson and soft short circuits (hard shorts just blow the fuse).
Okay, but don't forget that the thickest wire in the electrical circuit of a car and that carries the most current is the battery and there are no fuses there... 🙄
For that reason manual switches are good or just carry one of these in the glove box, and run fast, but if there is already a fire in the engine compartment, raising the hood will be a great risk, Before we cautious men put a switch inside the passenger compartment, in an easily accessible place.
Attachments
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Back in the 80's when I first started work, a colleague told me his father worked on designing batteries. I've no idea the chemistry, but they stored an enormous amount of energy. I asked him " sounds great - why arent they selling them?" There was one caveat, when over charged, they didnt simply burn, they blew up. Equivalent of a stick of dynamite he said. I guess there was no way humans (or some electronic circuit...) could be trusted to mind the charging - or else!
It is a snowball effect. All together sad either way.
There is many dangerous items in our homes to cause fires.
In a ideal situation, we hope to have safe items that dont catch fire.
Likewise, if we had a fire.
We hope there is warning systems.
Automatic fire extinguishing systems.
And well marked escape routes.
I dont know the level of fire safety in the building shown.
General observation looks like a death trap.
Fire will always be fire.
It is never a good situation.
There is many dangerous items in our homes to cause fires.
In a ideal situation, we hope to have safe items that dont catch fire.
Likewise, if we had a fire.
We hope there is warning systems.
Automatic fire extinguishing systems.
And well marked escape routes.
I dont know the level of fire safety in the building shown.
General observation looks like a death trap.
Fire will always be fire.
It is never a good situation.
My wife told me that a TV newscast reported that the father of that family and a 16-year-old daughter wanted to rescue the little ones by entering the hell of that burning room. She died and her father is hospitalized in serious condition...
But the worst thing is that it seems that the owner of the 23-year-old skateboard was not at home at the time of the fire and would have left the scooter on charge....
That is why, more than ever, I emphasize that these devices are not delivered with very clear warnings about the dangers of chargers and batteries.
I suppose that all of them must incorporate load cut circuits when reaching the maximum of the load, which is when the temperature of the battery is very hot. Like on a cell phone. I have read that the explosion of one of these batteries is like a mini volcano releasing the plasma around it.
I found a scooter manual, it is in Spanish, but I left the section that matters to us translated into English.
https://www.kiqscooter.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/KIQ-Manual-de-usario.pdf
Thoughts ? is this enough?
4 Battery Instructions
The instructions show how to charge and maintain the battery, some safety precautions, and the specifications. Please
Use the battery correctly according to the instructions to prolong battery life and performance.
4.1 Battery Parameters
4.3 Steps for charging
● Open the charging port cover, make sure the charging port is clean and dry.
● Connect the charger to the battery and the other end to the power source (100V-240V; 50/60Hz), make sure the charging indicator
it's on.
● When the charging indicator light changes, it indicates that the charging process is normal, otherwise, please check if the
connection is fine.
● When the indicator has changed color, it means the battery is 99% charged, please
unplug the charger; overcharging for a long period of time can affect battery life.
4.2 Battery Safety
Do not continue to use when the following conditions occur:
The electric scooter battery should only be used in accordance with local laws. The maintenance and
Dis-assembly of the battery must be carried out by professionals.
Excessive odor or heating; leakage of any substance; do not touch any component or liquid leaking from the battery.
Do not let children or animals touch the battery. You must unplug the charger plug before installing the
battery or mount. When charging, it is very dangerous to do anything related to electric vehicles.
If you want your electric scooter to work efficiently, the battery should be charged and used within the ranges of
temperature indicated in the battery specifications table.
Lithium batteries are considered dangerous and require compliance with local laws in order to be transported.
The battery contains dangerous substances. Please don't open the battery. Do not insert anything inside the battery.
Charging Method 1:
Tips:
Charging Method 2:
port of
burden
interface
Drums
It is forbidden to charge a lithium battery that has been over-discharged. A battery that has been over-discharged is a
safety risk and can only be discarded.
Tip: When the internal temperature of the battery exceeds 45°C, the battery is protected.
Do not charge the battery in high temperatures (45°C) or charge the battery in high temperature environments (40°C).
Please only use the original charger to charge the electric scooter.
13
Remove the battery to open the silicone charging port, connect the DC plug to the charging port.
Battery charge; connect the cable to the charger and then connect the other port to the socket (100V-240V; 50/60Hz)
and verify that the charger indicator is on
Please close the charging port with the dust cap in case some metal may touch the charging port and
generate a short circuit after finishing charging.
14
Name Parameters Name Parameters Name Parameters
Type Li-ion Battery Working Temperature 0℃-35℃ Storage Time（-10℃-40℃） 3 months (full charge)
Charging time 3-4 hours Charging temperature 0℃-35℃ Initial volume 5Ah/6.4Ah
Voltage 36V Max. Charge Voltage 42V Max Charge Current 2A
But the worst thing is that it seems that the owner of the 23-year-old skateboard was not at home at the time of the fire and would have left the scooter on charge....
That is why, more than ever, I emphasize that these devices are not delivered with very clear warnings about the dangers of chargers and batteries.
I suppose that all of them must incorporate load cut circuits when reaching the maximum of the load, which is when the temperature of the battery is very hot. Like on a cell phone. I have read that the explosion of one of these batteries is like a mini volcano releasing the plasma around it.
I found a scooter manual, it is in Spanish, but I left the section that matters to us translated into English.
https://www.kiqscooter.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/KIQ-Manual-de-usario.pdf
Thoughts ? is this enough?
4 Battery Instructions
The instructions show how to charge and maintain the battery, some safety precautions, and the specifications. Please
Use the battery correctly according to the instructions to prolong battery life and performance.
4.1 Battery Parameters
4.3 Steps for charging
● Open the charging port cover, make sure the charging port is clean and dry.
● Connect the charger to the battery and the other end to the power source (100V-240V; 50/60Hz), make sure the charging indicator
it's on.
● When the charging indicator light changes, it indicates that the charging process is normal, otherwise, please check if the
connection is fine.
● When the indicator has changed color, it means the battery is 99% charged, please
unplug the charger; overcharging for a long period of time can affect battery life.
4.2 Battery Safety
Do not continue to use when the following conditions occur:
The electric scooter battery should only be used in accordance with local laws. The maintenance and
Dis-assembly of the battery must be carried out by professionals.
Excessive odor or heating; leakage of any substance; do not touch any component or liquid leaking from the battery.
Do not let children or animals touch the battery. You must unplug the charger plug before installing the
battery or mount. When charging, it is very dangerous to do anything related to electric vehicles.
If you want your electric scooter to work efficiently, the battery should be charged and used within the ranges of
temperature indicated in the battery specifications table.
Lithium batteries are considered dangerous and require compliance with local laws in order to be transported.
The battery contains dangerous substances. Please don't open the battery. Do not insert anything inside the battery.
Charging Method 1:
Tips:
Charging Method 2:
port of
burden
interface
Drums
It is forbidden to charge a lithium battery that has been over-discharged. A battery that has been over-discharged is a
safety risk and can only be discarded.
Tip: When the internal temperature of the battery exceeds 45°C, the battery is protected.
Do not charge the battery in high temperatures (45°C) or charge the battery in high temperature environments (40°C).
Please only use the original charger to charge the electric scooter.
13
Remove the battery to open the silicone charging port, connect the DC plug to the charging port.
Battery charge; connect the cable to the charger and then connect the other port to the socket (100V-240V; 50/60Hz)
and verify that the charger indicator is on
Please close the charging port with the dust cap in case some metal may touch the charging port and
generate a short circuit after finishing charging.
14
Name Parameters Name Parameters Name Parameters
Type Li-ion Battery Working Temperature 0℃-35℃ Storage Time（-10℃-40℃） 3 months (full charge)
Charging time 3-4 hours Charging temperature 0℃-35℃ Initial volume 5Ah/6.4Ah
Voltage 36V Max. Charge Voltage 42V Max Charge Current 2A
Agree Gasoline or Electric
they all burn.
fire is fire.
Especially the 2 million or so recalls
of the darn trucks that catch on fire.
Trucks/ passenger cars etc etc...they all have certain " history"
We all sleep often with a cell phone charging next to us.
Are you worried?
Put a can of Gasoline next to your bed while you sleep.
Concerned? Worried?
Nah of course your not, sleeping next to gasoline...totally normal.
My house catches on fire, just blame the darn gasoline guy not warning me.
Jerk.
It was a building about 30 years old, I suppose without great security measures. But I think a smoke detector wouldn't have changed things in this case. Imagine that magma spread on fabrics, synthetic carpets, etc. And it is the middle of winter here, so there would also be a high temperature inside the room, that is why it was speculated at first that the cause of the damage was a "heater", another very dangerous device, the engines usually overheat, they catch fire, then they melts plastic, etc. . They say they have security measures, if they turn over by mistake, the power is cut..... 👎
https://www.argentinacolor.com/MLA-...g-g1_mJp5zSICg4FbAk5QigimeHNeG1xoC0owQAvD_BwE
I agree, but manufacturers must also guarantee safety and warn the user to the extreme, not all of us are specialized technicians... except for a young man who surely did not read the brochure of his skateboard and perhaps nobody did in his place.
A brother-in-law of mine owned a gas station. When the trucks arrived to fill the underground warehouses, which have a loading opening at ground level, despite the fact that the load was suspended, there were warning signs everywhere, perimeter security tapes, etc., many drivers smoked inside or outside their vehicles waiting their turn from a distance. My relative Juan Cartos (RIP) asked them to move further away or leave, not all of them complied and he argued countless times, because these guys claimed to be far from the loading mouth, but what they did not know is that the gasoline it is heavier than air and expands parallel throughout the floor surrounding the loading opening. If one of these guys dropped his butt on the ground, even a few feet away, booommmm.
He ended up selling his business and started a bakery.
I have 300 gal (say 1200L) of propane on the other side of my bedroom wall.
A lot of those battery warnings should be MANDATED in the charger. Humans can't be trusted with such details. Neither can low-price factories in faraway lands.
There is still the car problem. Last month a Tesla was damaged in accident and put in scrapyard. 3 weeks later, fire started. Fire truck put it out, re-ignited. Over and over! They dug a pit with 4,500 gal (20 cubic meters) of water, and that put it out. So far.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2022/06/23/tesla-fire-california-reignites/7709296001/
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There is a hint in the user instruction that overcharging is possible with the BMS design used, this is almost a guarantee that an accident will happen. I have a little bit of knowledge in this area.
A well designed BMS provides thermal, overcharging, over discharging, overload and short circuit protection. More than one means of OVP protection should be provided that still protects all cells in the event of a component or software failure in the charging system. In smart packs the MCU should be able to do general house keeping and determine whether a hardware or software malfunction exists.
Good pack design entails providing multiple levels of protection, anticipating all failure modes that could result in a hazard. The only one that is impossible to address in the electrical design is a defect in a specific cell.
Fuses are a good last resort protection for a severe external short that has caused collateral damage to the pack preventing it from shutting down properly.
The user should have to do nothing more than plug the unit in and charge it, observing common sense precautions that apply to all electrical devices.
The risk of cell defects is quite low if cells used are sourced from a reputable and diligent supplier.
Lithium Ion pack safety is heavily regulated, there is the UN38.3 transportation directive for Li batteries and packs, as well electrical safety related IEC162133. Most national regulatory bodies have stringent requirements that have to be met.
Properly designed Li battery packs are safe, improperly designed ones, and likely most efforts by hobbyist probably are not.
A well designed BMS provides thermal, overcharging, over discharging, overload and short circuit protection. More than one means of OVP protection should be provided that still protects all cells in the event of a component or software failure in the charging system. In smart packs the MCU should be able to do general house keeping and determine whether a hardware or software malfunction exists.
Good pack design entails providing multiple levels of protection, anticipating all failure modes that could result in a hazard. The only one that is impossible to address in the electrical design is a defect in a specific cell.
Fuses are a good last resort protection for a severe external short that has caused collateral damage to the pack preventing it from shutting down properly.
The user should have to do nothing more than plug the unit in and charge it, observing common sense precautions that apply to all electrical devices.
The risk of cell defects is quite low if cells used are sourced from a reputable and diligent supplier.
Lithium Ion pack safety is heavily regulated, there is the UN38.3 transportation directive for Li batteries and packs, as well electrical safety related IEC162133. Most national regulatory bodies have stringent requirements that have to be met.
Properly designed Li battery packs are safe, improperly designed ones, and likely most efforts by hobbyist probably are not.
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This video should tell more on battery fire.
Unlike normal engine driven vehicle fires, battery fires are instant and difficult to escape.
Regards.
Unlike normal engine driven vehicle fires, battery fires are instant and difficult to escape.
Regards.
Agree with the charger.
Another thing we dont know if charging cutoff or battery management is on the charger or on the skateboard.
We dont know if original charger ( cheap switch mode)
failed years ago.
Using any random charger for who knows how long with no battery cutoff
Who knows, funny a cheap skateboard catches on fire and somehow
political corruption comes in and the scapegoat Tesla takes the blame.
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Generally in small appliance packs I am familiar with the pack manages charging cutoff and the external charger is pretty dumb being either a CCCV type or CV. There may be more sophisticated external chargers that I am not familiar with. One of the things a proper BMS should do is determine before starting to charge whether the charger connected appears to be the right type. You can measure both unloaded charger voltage, and initial charging current, if they are not in the expected range you terminate charging as soon as you detect a parameter that is outside of the acceptable range.
It would be very interesting to know what type of cells are in use in these buses, prismatic/pouch cells or cylindrical cells. Pouch type cells expand significantly during discharge which is another potential issue that has to be accounted for in the pack design, and unfortunately isn't always.
Edit: The batteries used in those buses are LMP a form of solid state (electrolyte) lithium battery. Here is the maker of the cells used in the Paris bus.
https://www.blue-solutions.com/en/battery-technology/
The packaging appears to be similar to prismatic/pouch cells which might explain why it was so rapid and why there was so much flaming debris as well.
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Im only familiar with the Radio Control hobby market.
Usually the battery is the dumb one, so to speak
Multi Cell battery would have leads to each cell for charging.
they charger itself determines the current and cutoff for each cell.
when I competed at RC car races. The clubs were usually strict on battery types.
When charging at the track, certain battery types were required to use flame proof charging bags.
Sounded extreme at time, it hindsight now makes sense.
The charger bags were very common items at hobby stores.
I guess it would be possible to wrap battery packs in consumer devices
with the flameproof material. Also easy to require battery management/ smart charger
to stay with the battery.
Usually the battery is the dumb one, so to speak
Multi Cell battery would have leads to each cell for charging.
they charger itself determines the current and cutoff for each cell.
when I competed at RC car races. The clubs were usually strict on battery types.
When charging at the track, certain battery types were required to use flame proof charging bags.
Sounded extreme at time, it hindsight now makes sense.
The charger bags were very common items at hobby stores.
I guess it would be possible to wrap battery packs in consumer devices
with the flameproof material. Also easy to require battery management/ smart charger
to stay with the battery.