A tool exists for that: WIKIPEDIA
But then again, it must be backed-up with (published) sources: tests, demonstration and proofs.
Otherwise, it's just a bunch of opinions.
But then again, it must be backed-up with (published) sources: tests, demonstration and proofs.
Otherwise, it's just a bunch of opinions.
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FYI: I started this thread simply because it follows what I discovered with my midrange's drivers blind test: The human ear can not distinguish a 10$ driver from a 1500$ one, when SPL-matched and EQd.
So it leaves me with only one logical option: to seek for affordable drivers that can deliver as much undistorted ouput possible within a useable bandwith as large as possible.
Then, 1-way, 2-way, 3-way... It's a designer's decision.
So it leaves me with only one logical option: to seek for affordable drivers that can deliver as much undistorted ouput possible within a useable bandwith as large as possible.
Then, 1-way, 2-way, 3-way... It's a designer's decision.
JJ,
Given the broad distribution of genetic hearing acuity, environment, training, experience, and taste you will only ever find broad trends in what people consider best.
In the end, only your enjoyment of the music is what is important.
Unfortunately that often means lots of trial & error. Opportunities to listen to stuff, especially in diy, and with a fewer & fewer number of decent brick & mortar shops, the opporunity for audition is not all that large. That is one of the reasons i have been encouraging diyFESTs, ours up here in Victoria (sadly none last year, or this) has done back to 2003, Burning Amp in SF, Terry Olsen’s (& others) efforts to have annual events in the Seattle area, Toronto, Ontario, European Triode Festival are some that come to mind amongst many more.
I am always happy to have people come and listen & talk and in normal circumstances you are not far away. As are many other enthusiasts.
We can only share our feelings & experiences. You, for yourself, have to try to read between the lines, and figure out your direction. And watch out for trolls.
There is no such thing as a perfect hifi, they are all wrought with many compromises. Only you can choose the ones that best suit you.
There is no best. But there is lots of good stuff. It is a moving target. And if one ignores the big buck bling (not saying that some of those products are not very valid, but many are expensive crap), the quality of stuff continues to improve & go down in price. Especially if one is DIYing. And the move of manufacturer direct to end user is generally pushing value up.
dave
Your opinion. Any statistician would laugh at the blind tests you have conducted given your description of them.
But whatever cranks your gears.
dave
I tend to disagree on that one.
''Perfect HiFi'' is simply a sound system able to give the illusion of something ''real''
Therefore, if 100% of a group of listeners are unable to identify which one is the reproduction or the live source, then you have a ''perfect HiFi'' for that group (and most likely to a very large percentage of the population).
Simple as that.
Dave, I think you're letting the frustration getting in your way because my conclusions are not aligned with your beliefs.
Fair enough. I understand that very human feeling.
But all the blind tests I organized where done with all the seriousness possible and every single steps of the methodologies were questioned.
Also, and maybe more importantly, anyone, ANYONE, can reproduce such blind test and see by themselves the results. But, yes, it takes time, money and will to do so. 😉
Here is the context:
Blindtest.
Rotating cube (enclosure) with 2 different drivers per round, one driver at a time, on-axis to the listener.
Bandpass crossover 360hz @ 7,200hz (48db/oct slope).
Both EQ'd and SPL-matched.
About a dozen different drivers tested total.
Nobody could identify blindly any of them, EVEN by swinging the head left/right in the hope of spotting differences in power response (directivity).
Over 150 rounds total were made. Various music excerpts, various music genres, various lenghts.
The types of drivers couldn't be more mixed: from a 2'' compression driver to a 10'' pro mid, to a small 4'' fullrange, to a 8'' woofer to a ultra high-end 8'' fullrange.
Nobody could spot anyone of them, not even close, in that EQ/SPL-matched 360hz-7200hz bandwith.
Blindtest.
Rotating cube (enclosure) with 2 different drivers per round, one driver at a time, on-axis to the listener.
Bandpass crossover 360hz @ 7,200hz (48db/oct slope).
Both EQ'd and SPL-matched.
About a dozen different drivers tested total.
Nobody could identify blindly any of them, EVEN by swinging the head left/right in the hope of spotting differences in power response (directivity).
Over 150 rounds total were made. Various music excerpts, various music genres, various lenghts.
The types of drivers couldn't be more mixed: from a 2'' compression driver to a 10'' pro mid, to a small 4'' fullrange, to a 8'' woofer to a ultra high-end 8'' fullrange.
Nobody could spot anyone of them, not even close, in that EQ/SPL-matched 360hz-7200hz bandwith.
Well yes, it would be. Theoretically. However, to the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever been able to do that consistently yet, and with current technology I see little sign we're likely to in the forseeable future either. So Dave's point is a purely practical, and fundamentally correct one in the current physical reality: there really isn't any such thing in existance as a 'perfect hi-fi'.
And that is very much dependent on the person perceiving the illusion. So not possible to have one perfect hifi, but perhaps one for a specific person. But given that the experience of listening to that hifi will evolve that person's training/experience it may not stay “perfect".
dave
That may be true to some extent, but, althou my experience is ln the past, my statistics background (Honours BSc in Statistical Mathematics) is sufficient to divine whether a blind test has merit.
The 1st unanswered question is: Does your DSP remove sufficient information that any differences in the drivers tested are lost?
dave
See? That's interesting. You're pointing out that electronics can be a bottleneck.
Valid argument.
Problem is, just before I organized a test about DACs, where some cheap 20$ DAC from Amazon couldnt be spotted from a super high-end studio DAC....
So, if the human ear is not sensible enough to spot either a 24/96 music file from a compressed MP3/AAC .... and.... not sensible enough to spot a basic analog/digital converter to a pro audio counterpart... What's left?
Tell me, please.
That's exactly why in these tests I tried to gather as much participants as possible, as various as possible (age, sex, background, etc..)
But, to be clear, you clearly see a pattern after the first dozen of participants, and even with the first 20 or 30 rounds of just a handful of participants...
And all that is with an environment (audiolab) that allow the participant to be 100% focus, fully dedicated and motivated to successfully spot the correct answer. Obviously, as casual music listeners, that's hardly the level of focus we reach on a daily basis...
So, if you don't succeed in that kind of test... well, it just can be worst in ''real life'' and for ''real people''.