I do not care about Lii audio, have never experienced those particular drivers but I have some knowledge about the structural design of them.
My statements are purely on the basis of my personal experience with a quite varied range of Fullrange/wideband drivers from about 2" to 15".
Ofcourse he does, in that case it's a pure dipole design, how do you expect to get the most out of something like this without some extra backing down low?
Dipole designs roll off quite aggressively so it is only natural to use more driver membrane area and perhaps some EQ to compensate.
A bit curious as to what you are trying to bring to the table in terms of discussion, so far it seems you have more interest in arguing rather than contributing.
As far as I can see noone here is trying to portray 15" FR drivers as "the ultimate" in speakers, but more like a very rewarding experience, seems to me that is a concept you and possibly @nicoch58 are unable to comprehend.
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that's why is a non sense ,just use a smaller for up 300hz ,Fr 8" to 4" will sound better that's 100% sure
btw a good 8" can sound on bass (45Hz max )really well on OB ,in not big room on pair of 5/6" box speakers
I respectfully disagree regarding your claim that a single 8" can provide sufficient bass at 45Hz in OB. Doppler effect will be audible with that muh EQ.
Personally I think the best behaved fullrange/wideband drivers are around 3- 5", but there is something interesting about 12-15" fullrangers.
Big FR drivers is a completely different set of compromises, not better, just different, absolutely ridiculous at first, and a lot of FUN!
Personally I think the best behaved fullrange/wideband drivers are around 3- 5", but there is something interesting about 12-15" fullrangers.
Big FR drivers is a completely different set of compromises, not better, just different, absolutely ridiculous at first, and a lot of FUN!
well for fun ok .....Good your 3-5" I prefered 4to6" near the same...about 8" in OB without EQ is 14y that enjoy and not sfigure too much with the little devil of 5,5reveletor on is side.....
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Disagreements are being dragged onto other threads. Rules breaking posts have been removed. We take a dim view of this.
It looks like there's some deep seated biased opinions here, Some are wrong inevitably, and the more I see here on diyaudio... I think there is just alot of billigerant bigotry. nelson pass doesn't call you greedy boyz for nothin was not meant for to be a compliment!
I like the idea of a large full range open baffle speaker, if it can be flat or linear with a nice amount of bass.
Lii audio is very intriguing in a historical approach, an engineering approach, and a combining of all the winning factors approach.
What benefits you gain from a single driver full range setup is ONE sonic field, which is also nicely formed because of the circular baffle, and the fact the sound is eminating from one point and only one point. This suits the purists well, and next diy'ing when you want to make one yourself...
If the forum participants here want a new project, under a new subject (I think, link me the thread that may have already done this) how about converting an affordable high performance 15 inch or larger woofer, pro, neodymium or guitar specific driver into a nicely balanced full range speaker, with I suppose, just a perfectly shaped whizzer and protruding thingy, I dont know what that's called at the moment, but, YES.
If we could glue on something nice like a carbon fiber whizzer or 3d printed? That would make for a heck of an easy way to get the purest sound, while circumventing the retail price of boutique hifi, and also just giving the middle finger again to historical obsolescence of superior sound equipment due to ignorant marketing and markets.......
I like the idea of a large full range open baffle speaker, if it can be flat or linear with a nice amount of bass.
Lii audio is very intriguing in a historical approach, an engineering approach, and a combining of all the winning factors approach.
What benefits you gain from a single driver full range setup is ONE sonic field, which is also nicely formed because of the circular baffle, and the fact the sound is eminating from one point and only one point. This suits the purists well, and next diy'ing when you want to make one yourself...
If the forum participants here want a new project, under a new subject (I think, link me the thread that may have already done this) how about converting an affordable high performance 15 inch or larger woofer, pro, neodymium or guitar specific driver into a nicely balanced full range speaker, with I suppose, just a perfectly shaped whizzer and protruding thingy, I dont know what that's called at the moment, but, YES.
If we could glue on something nice like a carbon fiber whizzer or 3d printed? That would make for a heck of an easy way to get the purest sound, while circumventing the retail price of boutique hifi, and also just giving the middle finger again to historical obsolescence of superior sound equipment due to ignorant marketing and markets.......
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I don't like those drivers, but in their category they do a lot better than most do, that is true. If they could be more consistent in their parameters (which they are trying, new designs are way better than old on this) I would be more interested. For OB those drivers are quiet ok. But in my opinion there is much better out there for the rest i think. They are what they are, very oldskool in tech, but relative well executed and good looking big fullrange drivers. And what i like most about them, is that they pushed AN with it's arrogant owner and lots of snake oil largely out of the market with just better products in that category and way better bussiness practices and support...
But i don't get the hatred. There are a lot of speaker drives and designs that i don't like, and then i mostly shut my mouth and look at something more interesting. You should also... People don't always look for the same thing as you and that is not a problem. And all fullrange drivers are with compromises, so choose those that fit you (i do).
But i don't get the hatred. There are a lot of speaker drives and designs that i don't like, and then i mostly shut my mouth and look at something more interesting. You should also... People don't always look for the same thing as you and that is not a problem. And all fullrange drivers are with compromises, so choose those that fit you (i do).
Oh, I had forgotten about this thread, here it is come back to life.
While I genuinely like fullrange drivers, I've never heard a tonally well balanced one used alone on OB. (Maybe one of Nelson's?) I just don't see how you could do it properly with the open baffle bass losses.
Using a small to medium fullrange driver on EB with a large woofer on the same baffle for bass support can work very well IME. But one FR alone? That would be very tricky and I don't remember ever building or hearing a good one.
While I genuinely like fullrange drivers, I've never heard a tonally well balanced one used alone on OB. (Maybe one of Nelson's?) I just don't see how you could do it properly with the open baffle bass losses.
Using a small to medium fullrange driver on EB with a large woofer on the same baffle for bass support can work very well IME. But one FR alone? That would be very tricky and I don't remember ever building or hearing a good one.
Some open baffle setups are like passive radiators. The driver imparts its inertial energy to move the large surface area panel just like transducers, but when the baffle is tuned to resonate with the driver in a complementary way, you can easily get low frequencies, and fuller sound from very small speakers. It can be optimized by changing shape, weight, thickness stiffness of the baffle, so that is one good place to start if you are dealing with a smaller speakers. Id be fine with the bass from two full range eights all in all.
You guys probably have had this idea, but what about a suspended open baffle? Just hung by a couple strings, like the transducer panels on tech ingredients yt channel?
Maybe I will have to buy a pair of 15's though and 3d print some whizzers and go from there. Or maybe I should try it first with my big as btl Fi.
You guys probably have had this idea, but what about a suspended open baffle? Just hung by a couple strings, like the transducer panels on tech ingredients yt channel?
Maybe I will have to buy a pair of 15's though and 3d print some whizzers and go from there. Or maybe I should try it first with my big as btl Fi.
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Marketing departments are bad enough now that job is being done by people that have become expert audio reviewers overnight and use you tube to tell you all about it. Audio reviewers on you tube all have one thing in common they are all idiots.
Hi everyone
I have started this post, so my obligation to all of you is to give you the latest info considering my situation: I am the proud owner of the Lii F15 drivers for 6 months, they are playing so far on the 18 mm chipboard cut by hand jigsaw exactly to Decware ZF15L shape.
This is for the start, to see if this sound signature is right for me, and I have to say it, this is truly one magnificent experience, such a big and airy soundscape...you just need to give time for breaking in and it is very sensitive to the room placement-interaction and also the angle between them and your ears...I can describe the sound and wonderful time I am spending with them for hours here, but let's keep it simple.
I will keep them, proper baffle is under construction, it will be double MDF 18mm =36mm, shape Decware, and the plate foot will be 4 times 18mm MDF board=76mm.
I am driving them with a Yamaha RN602 stereo network receiver, and I would also like to try them with a push-pull tube amp or single-ended A class, but some cheap solution like dock audio or similar...what do you think about that, would it be a waste of money or should I try with some more expensive tube amp, would it be significant sound improvement considering the known synergy of the full range open baffle and tube amp, but on the other hand this power and control with Yami is hard to beat...still, would like to finally hear this tube sound, warm and rich...
Thank you all for you comments in all this time.
I have started this post, so my obligation to all of you is to give you the latest info considering my situation: I am the proud owner of the Lii F15 drivers for 6 months, they are playing so far on the 18 mm chipboard cut by hand jigsaw exactly to Decware ZF15L shape.
This is for the start, to see if this sound signature is right for me, and I have to say it, this is truly one magnificent experience, such a big and airy soundscape...you just need to give time for breaking in and it is very sensitive to the room placement-interaction and also the angle between them and your ears...I can describe the sound and wonderful time I am spending with them for hours here, but let's keep it simple.
I will keep them, proper baffle is under construction, it will be double MDF 18mm =36mm, shape Decware, and the plate foot will be 4 times 18mm MDF board=76mm.
I am driving them with a Yamaha RN602 stereo network receiver, and I would also like to try them with a push-pull tube amp or single-ended A class, but some cheap solution like dock audio or similar...what do you think about that, would it be a waste of money or should I try with some more expensive tube amp, would it be significant sound improvement considering the known synergy of the full range open baffle and tube amp, but on the other hand this power and control with Yami is hard to beat...still, would like to finally hear this tube sound, warm and rich...
Thank you all for you comments in all this time.
To be honest guys, this is the sort of emotion that listening to music AND diy engineering evokes, so in a way it is a testament to these drivers' appeal in both areas. Perhaps not to everyone's tastes and preferences, but definitely cause for stimulating debate. 😉
There are some sources for really standardized and high quality frequency response and distortion measurements online and in magazines. Hobby Hifi and Klang&Ton, Hifi-Selbstbau etc. Joseph Crowe is building up a nice library of tests as well. I will say one little thing, There is more to dispersion and beaming than the cone diameter. Just comparing off-axis response of various real-world drivers will tell you that. For various reasons, but let's not pretend I am quilified to lecture anyone one that.
One more thing: I think any loudspeaker unit in a box/enclosure/baffle needs some additional filtering work to perform its best. I can't really understand why a loudspeaker builder in 2023 would settle for anything less. Sometimes it needs little more than a baffle of a particular width, to provide a little baffle step compensation. Sometimes to drag peaks down, raise plateaus etc etc etc etc. At 24bit/192kHz available from cheap and easy DSP options, or free software to help design passive crossovers, also active line level crossovers etc, it's too accessible to not apply. Of course, in reality, room gain and angling speakers inwards and outwards can often be enough to get a decent and pleasant balance. But then we are not talking about raw frequency response curves anymore anyway.
The best off-axis response I have seen from a fullrange drive unit is the Monacor SP-155X. Its treble rolls off, but the off-axis is really proportional and falls off very gently off-axis. It has a very benign directivity axis. I'd love to try it sometime. There are many 4" drivers that perform much worse. My Fane 15" drivers are not that much worse.
I'd love to see more measurements of DIY-ers of their finished systems.
There are some sources for really standardized and high quality frequency response and distortion measurements online and in magazines. Hobby Hifi and Klang&Ton, Hifi-Selbstbau etc. Joseph Crowe is building up a nice library of tests as well. I will say one little thing, There is more to dispersion and beaming than the cone diameter. Just comparing off-axis response of various real-world drivers will tell you that. For various reasons, but let's not pretend I am quilified to lecture anyone one that.
One more thing: I think any loudspeaker unit in a box/enclosure/baffle needs some additional filtering work to perform its best. I can't really understand why a loudspeaker builder in 2023 would settle for anything less. Sometimes it needs little more than a baffle of a particular width, to provide a little baffle step compensation. Sometimes to drag peaks down, raise plateaus etc etc etc etc. At 24bit/192kHz available from cheap and easy DSP options, or free software to help design passive crossovers, also active line level crossovers etc, it's too accessible to not apply. Of course, in reality, room gain and angling speakers inwards and outwards can often be enough to get a decent and pleasant balance. But then we are not talking about raw frequency response curves anymore anyway.
The best off-axis response I have seen from a fullrange drive unit is the Monacor SP-155X. Its treble rolls off, but the off-axis is really proportional and falls off very gently off-axis. It has a very benign directivity axis. I'd love to try it sometime. There are many 4" drivers that perform much worse. My Fane 15" drivers are not that much worse.
I'd love to see more measurements of DIY-ers of their finished systems.