Um, "over the air recording" of a speaker! compared to an uploaded original recording?
Your bias and attempt to win arguments causes you to post nonsensical zero-logic posts.
Are you saying that a frequency response measurement, basic audio science and physics have no relation with the perceived sound quality we are hearing? If so that is pretty ignorant (and nonsensical zero-logic) at best and spreading misinformation at worst. For the past 40 years it has been pretty clear what makes for a good sounding speaker and what not; using a 15 inch driver to produce high frequencies, unless you are a science denier and have absolutely no understanding about loudspeaker engineering that is a pretty obvious, known fact...
1 - you're claiming i said things i didn't.
2 - a whizzer cone on a 15" driver is a known fact can produce high frequencies
3 - my point was that design and implementation isn't perfect. The end result is what matters most. Lost of good designs on paper dont pan out. And sometimes things you don't think will or should work well actually do. And the claim a 15" FR driver cannot sound good good is just plain false
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Your post(s) reads as if the only way to know anything about this speaker is by listening to it and that all other observations about it don't matter, if you agree with that isn't clear, but I don't think I am claiming anything you did(n't) say?
Page 1 disagrees with this showing that this driver is 25db down at 15khz and already 10db down at 3khz. Unless one means this statement literally to the letter, I wouldn't agree at all audible wise. I would say this driver cannot at all produce high frequencies in any audio playback context, even speech cannot be reproduced without significant attenuation, here is a measurement of a popular revel (Revel PerformaBe F226Be ) speaker; https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/im...l_F226Be/Revel F226Be_Predicted_vs_Target.png
The high frequency are what 4-5db lower at the highest and 3db at 10khz. This driver is 20db lower than that at 15khz, that is just bonkers. In fact I've never seen a whizzer cone which produces any kind of normal smooth extended highs (10khz and up), this one is no exception.
If you find a speaker with an effective operating range between 80hz and 3khz with an smoothness of +-8db and which also beams like a laser due to the 15 inch cone and probably has huge amounts of IM distortion due to being full range results in a good sounding speaker, than you either have lower standards than people had in the 70s or have absolutely no idea what a good (sounding) speaker means. This speaker is not good by any standards and the known properties of this loudspeaker are also not good and will not result in a good sounding loudspeaker if one judges it by the known metrics i.e. the research of Floyd Toole. It is beyond me how this is even debatable, try to place a 3th order or higher highpass of 80hz on your speakers, you basicly have no bass and everything sounds thin, now also place a low pass at 4khz, how can that work nor ever sound good, when you're missing so much of the sound spectrum? (my macbook literally has more bass and high frequency extension than this)
Nice how you keep putting words in my mouth.
15k is way up there. Nobody is claiming they reach tweeter levels. And going that high is certainly not a requirement for sounding good to some people. Also There are 8" FR drivers with similar treble response. And this doesn't mean that some people don't like them better with an added super-tweeter.
Btw have you personally heard the Lii F15 driver? I didn't think so.
Have you even read the many reviews of them? The consensus is obvious. You think everyone is lying about them sounding good?
Is 3khz also way up there? 15khz is pretty audible for me and missing it means it isn't full range so.... Also reread this thread and some reviews because they most certainly claim full range sound and reaching tweeter levels....
Yes and I don't trust them for the following reason pointed out in my previous comment;
People can hear that there is a lack of higher treble response and STILL like how they sound overall.
The Visaton B200 FR (just one example) also has a rolled off high end and yet it's been pretty popular for a long time with some people.
Nobody claimed they have "perfect" response overall.
You're welcome to your opinion. Clearly there are a lot of people out there that don't agree with you - and think they sound good.
PS. I think you're full of BS and just arguing your point. I don't think you ever heard these speakers in person.
I know Steve at Decware and have owned their very good products. His bread and butter is his tube amps and preamps.
He's not going to mate his tube amps with speakers that don't sound good - this is just common sense.
I'm done arguing with you.
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Tim, this is a subsection of the forum where we discuss a niche part of audio reproduction, single driver fullrange systems (or almost single driver fullrange systems), not multiway systems like you like. I also am not fan of those Lii drivers in general and think the F15 is too flawed, even for me a fullrange driver lover (and yes, i did hear them and some other Lii drivers, not my cup of tea).
But there is a niche who like it even if it's very flawed. With your ASR mentallity and standards this side is not for you. And in general, we in the fullrange section of diy audio have different goals than a neutral even dispertion speaker. So your arguments don't hold down here.
I myself prefer smaller well engineered drivers like those of Mark Audio, that you also will think are flawed (and they are if objective clean reproduction is the goal) but they got advantages that multiway systems don't have. So it's a matter of choosing your compromise. I like both sides (with a slight preference for well engineered fullrange drivers) and know both sides, bad and good sides. But not everybody is like that. Your section is the multiway section, where your standards are the rule.
you take the wrong driver the b200 is a DRILL for is rising responce ,no ones cure up 10k ....
there is an ogive fron planet 10 that can cure is shuting ....but is flowered, too big for no whizz ,some love for is Qts but is a driver of past 15year ago one of the first fr in Ob ....
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good post ,I have too an 8" fr on ob and tested a lot in this past 16year when born the ob trend on web , MK is still not perfect but no whizzer is the way for good sound ,to me in OB can compensate a lot what i lost vs my revelator SS multiway standard , Manzanita is good compromise to me
15fr is only business story and with an 15" woofer under a total non sense ,I write this for young boyz that search a good way
PS there is F18 too 😅🤡
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I'm an owner of the Lii F15s...
1. If you've heard them and like their sound
2. If you're willing to gamble - as I did - on you liking their sound...
Otherwise Manzanita. As is, or I'm sure you could experiment with any FR driver "up top" that's to your liking. Certainly more flexibility than a one-shot deal, having a finite probability of satisfaction. And you know in audio, we're never satisfied. That's why it's a hobby; always some other avenue to explore. Right down to the wire...
1. If you've heard them and like their sound
2. If you're willing to gamble - as I did - on you liking their sound...
Otherwise Manzanita. As is, or I'm sure you could experiment with any FR driver "up top" that's to your liking. Certainly more flexibility than a one-shot deal, having a finite probability of satisfaction. And you know in audio, we're never satisfied. That's why it's a hobby; always some other avenue to explore. Right down to the wire...
HI that's fine that you like , happy for you ,can I suggest to build an F3/F2 Current Source amp to gain a little more from the fr ?
https://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_cs_amps.pdf
You can! I'm a little tied up in the particular system architecture, when my amp is also the DAC and DSP. I could go a few Ohms in series with the output of what I've got - at the levels I listen to, wouldnt matter much to lose a little power in the resistor if it improved the sound. Thanks.
No?
Did you even read this thread or are you just arguing in defense of Lii audio?
I've literally gave the topic starter advice how he can build his baffles and what the disadvantages each baffle has, what have you so far contributed to this thread besides shilling for a company you are affiliated/friends with and/or owns products from? If you think I am full of ********, feel free to correct me... Also interesting that others here are biased in your eyes but you're the one knowing the owner and owning those products hmmm 🤔.
Does it even change what I said? I don't think so as I've only stated verifiable facts or opinions based on facts... It gets even better because you yourself agree with the rolled off highs and jjasniew even uses a (sub)woofer with his Lii audio's confirming what I stated, and even the poster after you agrees that it is too flawed. The 10th post EVEN shows a Lii audio f15 used with a super tweeter and a subwoofer confirming that what I suggested it needed/lacked is a good idea, but you probably didn't even read that.
Clearly there are also a lot of people who agree with me as pointed out in the last paragraph. The irony of all this is staggering 😂
a midrange is what we ear .....that's incredible to me !!60 to 100hz then 300 to 2k 😵