Hi everyone,
Please help me, what do you think, In the time to come I will build an open baffle speaker, the dimension of the baffle is not a problem because I have an MDF in unlimited dimensions...
Baffle for F15 would be somewhere about 60x120cm (or similar to Decware bigger dimensions..) and for the Manzanita precisely as well documentated on DIY forum...
So, it will be a project for a Solid-state amp, I have a Yamaha RN-602, and later maybe I would like to add a cheaper tube amp as ELEKIT TU 8100 or some push-pull from Nobsound or Douk Audio....but this will come only if a decision to go with Lii F15 which is preferable for tube amp...
Now, my main doubt is that I would like to go with Lii F15 from the start because the full range and no crossover is something that I would like to hear and try. After all, I am 50 years old and all of my life I am listening to a 2 or 3-way speaker (last 7 years I have JBL Studio 530 on this Yammi stereo receiver), but I don't know will it sounds good on SS amp, because all over the net is full of excellent review for this F15 driver but only with a tube amp, regardless their high sensibility, etc...
Maybe someone has tried to pair this F15 driver to an SS amp, so your opinion would be great...
On other hand, I see that many people are really satisfied with the Manzanita speaker, but if I build these, later tube amp upgrade is out of the question, as I see they are not for tube amplification...
Or, to make it simpler, maybe you have some other idea for a full range open baffle that would work well with SS and tube amp...400-500 EUR for the drivers is ok...
Thank you very much for your time in reading this...and thank you for this wonderful forum site, I am reading here post for more than a decade now...thank you all...
Please help me, what do you think, In the time to come I will build an open baffle speaker, the dimension of the baffle is not a problem because I have an MDF in unlimited dimensions...
Baffle for F15 would be somewhere about 60x120cm (or similar to Decware bigger dimensions..) and for the Manzanita precisely as well documentated on DIY forum...
So, it will be a project for a Solid-state amp, I have a Yamaha RN-602, and later maybe I would like to add a cheaper tube amp as ELEKIT TU 8100 or some push-pull from Nobsound or Douk Audio....but this will come only if a decision to go with Lii F15 which is preferable for tube amp...
Now, my main doubt is that I would like to go with Lii F15 from the start because the full range and no crossover is something that I would like to hear and try. After all, I am 50 years old and all of my life I am listening to a 2 or 3-way speaker (last 7 years I have JBL Studio 530 on this Yammi stereo receiver), but I don't know will it sounds good on SS amp, because all over the net is full of excellent review for this F15 driver but only with a tube amp, regardless their high sensibility, etc...
Maybe someone has tried to pair this F15 driver to an SS amp, so your opinion would be great...
On other hand, I see that many people are really satisfied with the Manzanita speaker, but if I build these, later tube amp upgrade is out of the question, as I see they are not for tube amplification...
Or, to make it simpler, maybe you have some other idea for a full range open baffle that would work well with SS and tube amp...400-500 EUR for the drivers is ok...
Thank you very much for your time in reading this...and thank you for this wonderful forum site, I am reading here post for more than a decade now...thank you all...
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I wish you'll have the best tube amp that you can afford and that the speakers that would accompany you in the sound journey will really satisfy in most -if not all- aspects of music reproduction. I see lots of myths & net-related imprecisions that need to be swallowed & digested then rejected.
There are no tube or SS amps differences. Probably is the DF ( damping factor) that plays a role in that. Efficiency: I know two or three things, one is the higher Z of a driver or speaker system, brings more efficiency - also the number of ways in a loudspeaker systems raises efficiency.
Then there's the sensitivity at 1 W / 1 m , which is determined mostly by driver's Sd, so a 15" is a win-win but...
There are no tube or SS amps differences. Probably is the DF ( damping factor) that plays a role in that. Efficiency: I know two or three things, one is the higher Z of a driver or speaker system, brings more efficiency - also the number of ways in a loudspeaker systems raises efficiency.
Then there's the sensitivity at 1 W / 1 m , which is determined mostly by driver's Sd, so a 15" is a win-win but...
FYI it's not a requirement of any sort to use a tube amp regardless of which design or components you choose, type of amplifier is mostly personal preference.
There are people that use Lii F15 with solid-state amps, but I suspect they are less vocal than some of the louder voices.
Fullrange speakers are fun, but remember whatever you choose to do it's always some form of compromise.
I think it's very funny that the Studio 530 is listed as a "bookshelf speaker", with that shape and that port placement it should be mandatory to have a stand and at least 1m distance to walls IMO.
There are people that use Lii F15 with solid-state amps, but I suspect they are less vocal than some of the louder voices.
Fullrange speakers are fun, but remember whatever you choose to do it's always some form of compromise.
I think it's very funny that the Studio 530 is listed as a "bookshelf speaker", with that shape and that port placement it should be mandatory to have a stand and at least 1m distance to walls IMO.
Yes KaffiMann, you are right, you can see my pleacement here, and stands made here in workshop according to my drawing, filled with sand...
I have 1m from behind and a lot more from sides...
I have 1m from behind and a lot more from sides...
KaffiMann
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The damping facotr (or the Rout as both are linked) plays a roll with this kind of drivers, but even with a class D amp that has a low Rout this is easy fixed with a high wattage low Ohm reistor (1R/20W shoud do it). It eats some sensivity off course, but the bass is better. Lii Audio drivers are made with high Rout/low damping factor in mind, so when not doing it the bass can be lower than wanted. But as the driver has littele xmax and is in a open baffle, the bass will be low anyway and a woofer will be needed to have real bass. So in reality i would not bother it too much.
For general sound (but the bass) it's more personal preference. That is not affected mostly and the colouring of tubes (or class A) is something you like or not.
For general sound (but the bass) it's more personal preference. That is not affected mostly and the colouring of tubes (or class A) is something you like or not.
Thank you...but if you can explain, what you mean under: "For general sound (but the bass) it's more personal preference."
Did you (or somebody else) heard a sound from F15 with some middle class SS amp?
My main focus is a quality of reproduction regarding the timber, natural voices, funk, soul, jazz...
Did you (or somebody else) heard a sound from F15 with some middle class SS amp?
My main focus is a quality of reproduction regarding the timber, natural voices, funk, soul, jazz...
Both low or high Rout amplify, but high Rout gives a bass boost (to simplify it) and drivers designed for high Rout amps lack bass with low Rout amps. Tubes and class A (the typical high Rout amps) have high harmonic distortion (the warm sound), class AB, Class D and Digital amps have that much less or not and are more true to the source, but often sound subjective cold and sterile to those who like harmonic distortion. What is best for you i can't tell (because it's subjective), but i like the harmonic distortion, just like most who use this kind of drivers.
What waxx is saying is that when you use certain types of amplifiers it's more or less the same as applying EQ, some lower powered (usually SE - Single Ended) tube or SS amps have an output impedance that not only increases part of the bass on lower frequencies when coupled to most regular speakers, but also makes it seem a bit "fuller" by also adding increased (preferably carefully balanced 2nd and 3rd order) harmonic distortion.
It's almost equal to applying a bit of EQ and adjusting a distortion pedal to tweak the sound to taste, makes it sound more fun but less accurate.
Distortion = fun, if it's applied with care in the right type and doseage.
Myself I prefer to have absolute control over the signal chain, and would rather have very low noise and distortion only to add distortion or adjust EQ if I feel the music is lacking something. Mostly because mastering is so wildly different from album to album.
I was chasing the same dream using tube amps, but it won't work with the F15. In reality the FR looks more like this:
I've settled with a notch filter to tackle the 6.5khz peak (= sibilance) and added a front-firing super tweeter. Adding another rear firing tweeter from 2.5khz upwards did miracles for me. Oh: if you can't boost the bass with your amp, you'll also need a sub crossing high ~150hz.
This all works great, but X-overless? Nah...
I can only imagine with a chasm of about -15dB starting at 2kHz.
I shudder to think of the off axis measurements.
I have a cheap copy of the Fane 15" FR here, and it measures a lot flatter than that F15.
Still wouldn't use it alone as it is lifeless above 5kHz, especially with the beaming of that big cone.
Interesting,
Thank you very much for your time and for sharing your knowledge...
How then on earth reviews all around the net considering the Decware solution and Glow in the dark solution, but others also claim excellent sound like never heard before and similar with only F15 driver, also, many many live videos with real sound sessions, and really sound great, how to explain that?
Thank you very much for your time and for sharing your knowledge...
How then on earth reviews all around the net considering the Decware solution and Glow in the dark solution, but others also claim excellent sound like never heard before and similar with only F15 driver, also, many many live videos with real sound sessions, and really sound great, how to explain that?
... Because many modern masterings sound shrill and fatigueing? Maybe people too stubborn for EQ just inadvertently discovered that perhaps it (EQ) may have some merit after all.
over-excited YouTubers? 🙂
Plenty of "reviews" have the title, "Best sound ever!" or similar, in this day and age. I pass those, not worth a read.
I have never heard a one design fit for all solution. There is always a compromise.
Anyone telling otherwise is lacking experience, biased, or paid advertisement!
I wonder about that too. I guess different expectations, experience, hearing, preferences...
Second order, quick and dirty. Could the off axis measurements be worse than a 15 inch full range dipole with whizzer cone on one side? To my ears it's beyond discussion: best sound ever 😛
- Hi leooki , I am thinking of trying some Lii Audio speakers too , Steve at Decware is really sold on them.
- I thought I would let you know - if you go to - https://www.youtube.com/user/MrGvernon , there is a Decware forum member named Geno that has 5 or 6 YouTube videos using some different Vintage Solid State Amplifiers on a pair of Lii Audio Speaker drivers - I think he is using the Silver 10's with the F15 Bass drivers - but he really likes his vintage SS amplifiers on the speakers , I know he also has another amp that may be driving the Bass driver maybe a - Crown XLS 1002 ... I could try and ask him if you like.
- I think they sound great , but you can listen with some decent headphones and decide what you think - 🙂
Best regards , Dean
- I thought I would let you know - if you go to - https://www.youtube.com/user/MrGvernon , there is a Decware forum member named Geno that has 5 or 6 YouTube videos using some different Vintage Solid State Amplifiers on a pair of Lii Audio Speaker drivers - I think he is using the Silver 10's with the F15 Bass drivers - but he really likes his vintage SS amplifiers on the speakers , I know he also has another amp that may be driving the Bass driver maybe a - Crown XLS 1002 ... I could try and ask him if you like.
- I think they sound great , but you can listen with some decent headphones and decide what you think - 🙂
Best regards , Dean
From my experience with Lii, it's a good replacement for AN. And the owners/sellers are not a jerk like the guy from AN. They are very similar in sound, specs and price and appeal to the people who like AN. They are flawed and were in the beginning not consistant (but that bettered i hear), but fit a certain market. But it's not for me. Fane makes much better big fullrange drivers (but they don't look fancy). They took that market that AN had, even so much that AN is closing down, and the owner will reitre he said.
And that Decaware likes them, is no surprise for me. It fit's his philosophy of fullrange speakers and hifi. If you are in the same league, they may fit you.
And that Decaware likes them, is no surprise for me. It fit's his philosophy of fullrange speakers and hifi. If you are in the same league, they may fit you.
