Looking for easy fix here, the home projects are adding up so no time to build new boxes and/or buy new woofers.
I went from a very old HT processor to a very new unit and glad I waited, technology is catching up and some new processors are equipped with auto room correction software and uploading features.
The sub box is a 4 Anarchy tower, which was from another project, but found the Tone and WoW factor is the best sub here. It will shake floors and rattle windows just fine. It doubles as a rear speaker stand also.
The response shown is pretty much what I expected, over time and many trips to HT showrooms, it was obvious the bass is not reaching down far enough in our HT setup.
The amp (now) is an inexpensive/small but powerful D class with 35hz bass boost, again after several attempts with amps, this was the best combination. E.g. I've tried many stereo A/B amps just don't seem to have that sub like sound (using proccesor's on board xo).
So again, so close here, just need to move the low end down 10hz and flatten it out a bit. Any recommendations?
Thanks, Doug
I went from a very old HT processor to a very new unit and glad I waited, technology is catching up and some new processors are equipped with auto room correction software and uploading features.
The sub box is a 4 Anarchy tower, which was from another project, but found the Tone and WoW factor is the best sub here. It will shake floors and rattle windows just fine. It doubles as a rear speaker stand also.
The response shown is pretty much what I expected, over time and many trips to HT showrooms, it was obvious the bass is not reaching down far enough in our HT setup.
The amp (now) is an inexpensive/small but powerful D class with 35hz bass boost, again after several attempts with amps, this was the best combination. E.g. I've tried many stereo A/B amps just don't seem to have that sub like sound (using proccesor's on board xo).
So again, so close here, just need to move the low end down 10hz and flatten it out a bit. Any recommendations?
Thanks, Doug
Attachments
Last edited:
Well, you know how this goes, trading SPL for LF gain BW usually means locating the sub either in a corner or very near/under the LP and if not sealed, then sealing it up and either using a LRT or sub-bass EQ to shape its in-room response as best you can and accept its lower overall performance.
GM
GM
Thanks GM. I should have mentioned the existing box is a double: 2 woofers each, vented with 4 long vents (90 degree L ports) 1.25sf3 (net) each chamber.
I ran some sims in WinISD, the same response for 1 speaker vs. 2 - 4 - 6.
Humm but 4 drivers sounded way better than 2; curious how 6 would work in one 4cf (ish) box.
Sealing the box, did not even consider that, will give that a try.
A sub-bass EQ box, never saw one, will look for one also.
Thanks!
I ran some sims in WinISD, the same response for 1 speaker vs. 2 - 4 - 6.
Humm but 4 drivers sounded way better than 2; curious how 6 would work in one 4cf (ish) box.
Sealing the box, did not even consider that, will give that a try.
A sub-bass EQ box, never saw one, will look for one also.
Thanks!
I almost started cutting, well actually cut several pieces 10" x 16" out of scrap for top/bottom/vents/etc. Turns out the Anarchy needs a huge box go to 30hz, and the response curve wasn't great.
Though about a massive 12" single sub driver, but went down that road once, it was ok, but only worked with the volume up pretty high.
[it's still here somewhere]
Back to the drawing board -- could use some ideas on woofer(s) that will fit this shape box, although could make it taller for a 3.75 cubic foot box. The goal:
* Sail past 30hz
* Handle lots of power
* Produce bass at normal HT sound listening levels.
Thanks for any ideas!
Though about a massive 12" single sub driver, but went down that road once, it was ok, but only worked with the volume up pretty high.
[it's still here somewhere]
Back to the drawing board -- could use some ideas on woofer(s) that will fit this shape box, although could make it taller for a 3.75 cubic foot box. The goal:
* Sail past 30hz
* Handle lots of power
* Produce bass at normal HT sound listening levels.
Thanks for any ideas!
Last edited:
High ODougbo,
I still like the MCM 55-2421 8" driver either sealed (in a corner), or w/ passive radiator(s), for an inexpensive subwoofer. Or, if you can fit it the JBL GT5-10D?
Multiple, distributed subs are also nice. For normal listening levels they don't have to be very large (see: the MCM 55-2421 sealed).
Regards,
P.S.: Did a real quick and dirty simultion using the MCM 55-2421 (single driver) in an OD-MLTL (offset driver mass-loaded transmission line). That would require Vnet = ~ 2ft^3, and result in a slightly slanted response, which should work fine in a corner.
I still like the MCM 55-2421 8" driver either sealed (in a corner), or w/ passive radiator(s), for an inexpensive subwoofer. Or, if you can fit it the JBL GT5-10D?
Multiple, distributed subs are also nice. For normal listening levels they don't have to be very large (see: the MCM 55-2421 sealed).
Regards,
P.S.: Did a real quick and dirty simultion using the MCM 55-2421 (single driver) in an OD-MLTL (offset driver mass-loaded transmission line). That would require Vnet = ~ 2ft^3, and result in a slightly slanted response, which should work fine in a corner.
Last edited:
Oh the famous 55-2421, a fellow over at PE came up with simple but cleaver box. (long port in small box) I'm using his box plan at another location, and there's plenty of bass.
I think 4 minimum would be needed for a powerful HT sound, then also wouldn't have to worry about subsonic filtering.
With 4 (or 6) of them the port would be much smaller also.
Not out of the question that's for sure!!
Gave up on the "Anarchy sub-woofer for HT", just not working in a vented box.
Found the 10" Alpine, a SWX 1042D in Alpine's suggested box size. Also sim-ed it in WinISD, but couldn't get it to sim like they did.
However, took the box out and checked Fs (30hz) and checked it in the box, again 30hz with even peaks.
Bridged an AB amp for 360 watts, and ran the processor's mic test again.
It works much better this time around!!
Would like to hear/see more on the OD-MLTL
Thanks!
I think 4 minimum would be needed for a powerful HT sound, then also wouldn't have to worry about subsonic filtering.
With 4 (or 6) of them the port would be much smaller also.
Not out of the question that's for sure!!
Gave up on the "Anarchy sub-woofer for HT", just not working in a vented box.
Found the 10" Alpine, a SWX 1042D in Alpine's suggested box size. Also sim-ed it in WinISD, but couldn't get it to sim like they did.
However, took the box out and checked Fs (30hz) and checked it in the box, again 30hz with even peaks.
Bridged an AB amp for 360 watts, and ran the processor's mic test again.
It works much better this time around!!
Would like to hear/see more on the OD-MLTL
Thanks!
Attachments
Last edited:
Post #2, realized that there are plenty of Anarchy boxes here (don't ask how many please) Not that a lot of time was spent on this but ran sweep tests with larger/smaller box combinations on the workbench.
The series connection is out with different size boxes, the energy tends to go to drift around and had better success stereo 4 ohm (two pair of boxes). The bass did reinforce at different lower frequencies.
Need to try the box on the far right (the smallest), replaced the tweeter with a 2" X 6" port late yesterday. btw the other tweeters are blank plates w/ black tape.
The series connection is out with different size boxes, the energy tends to go to drift around and had better success stereo 4 ohm (two pair of boxes). The bass did reinforce at different lower frequencies.
Need to try the box on the far right (the smallest), replaced the tweeter with a 2" X 6" port late yesterday. btw the other tweeters are blank plates w/ black tape.
Attachments
Last edited:
Pftt the last post didn't work -- not as good as two (2) of the center gray ones side-by-side in series.
The gray pair is now sitting on the black cube for a 1 -10" vs. 4 - 6.5" shoot out.
There's a third gray box and two more woofers for a 1 -10" vs. 6 - 6.5" shoot out, but think more power would be needed.
*the round port box was obnoxious, much better luck with slots (whisper quiet)
The gray pair is now sitting on the black cube for a 1 -10" vs. 4 - 6.5" shoot out.
There's a third gray box and two more woofers for a 1 -10" vs. 6 - 6.5" shoot out, but think more power would be needed.
*the round port box was obnoxious, much better luck with slots (whisper quiet)
Attachments
Hi ODougbo,
Post #14: "...Is a OD much different than a basic TL design?"
Usually, a transmission line loudspeaker is a 1/4 wave length resonant device. They used to be build following general assumptions, or rules of thumb.
Some links:
mh-audio.nl - Home
Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design
Classic TL Design -- Jon Risch
Transmission Line Speakers Read Me
For me resonant lines (pipes/tubes) have become much more accessible thanks to modern loudspeaker enclosure simulators like Hornresp which allow reasonably accurate predictions of the enclosure/driver system response, and they allow for the placement of the driver not just at the end of the line, but also at different points, e.g.: 1/3 line length from throat, or at the half-way point of the line.
Hornresp also gives you the freedom of placing filling material of varying density along the line, as well as choking parts of the line, e.g.: shape the final section to the terminus similar to a port in a vented enclosure, this is usually called mass-loading.
And then there is the possibility to place the driver inside the duct using the Hornresp "Tapped Horn" driver arrangement.
So, yes offset driver transmission lines are a bit of a different animal, but part of the overall family of 1/4 resonators.
Regards,
P.S.: Save a tree - simulate.
Post #14: "...Is a OD much different than a basic TL design?"
Usually, a transmission line loudspeaker is a 1/4 wave length resonant device. They used to be build following general assumptions, or rules of thumb.
Some links:
mh-audio.nl - Home
Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design
Classic TL Design -- Jon Risch
Transmission Line Speakers Read Me
For me resonant lines (pipes/tubes) have become much more accessible thanks to modern loudspeaker enclosure simulators like Hornresp which allow reasonably accurate predictions of the enclosure/driver system response, and they allow for the placement of the driver not just at the end of the line, but also at different points, e.g.: 1/3 line length from throat, or at the half-way point of the line.
Hornresp also gives you the freedom of placing filling material of varying density along the line, as well as choking parts of the line, e.g.: shape the final section to the terminus similar to a port in a vented enclosure, this is usually called mass-loading.
And then there is the possibility to place the driver inside the duct using the Hornresp "Tapped Horn" driver arrangement.
So, yes offset driver transmission lines are a bit of a different animal, but part of the overall family of 1/4 resonators.
Regards,
P.S.: Save a tree - simulate.
Here are the shoot out results, heavy 10" car woofer (left) vs. 4 - 7" Alum Cone (right).
It's great that the software does this, note that the xo settings are not applied until the upload.
Anyway it's a tie!!!
Odougbo is going to dig out some of the MCM woofer in the Iso tunnel boxes and measure, get ready to hold on to your hats!!
btw, the Anarchy's are in 1.1cf boxes (net, no vent/speaker) tuned to 34hz (ish).
It's great that the software does this, note that the xo settings are not applied until the upload.
Anyway it's a tie!!!
Odougbo is going to dig out some of the MCM woofer in the Iso tunnel boxes and measure, get ready to hold on to your hats!!
btw, the Anarchy's are in 1.1cf boxes (net, no vent/speaker) tuned to 34hz (ish).
Attachments
Last edited:
The Pot Luck Subwoofer Thread
Should have named this the pot luck subwoofer thread.
Used the pair of the brown boxes far left in post #11, wired to 8ohms.
And hard work pays off, the combination of "oversized" boxes with a stereo amp worked nicely, it didn't matter if one channel, 120w was used or bridged mode.
The measurements are un-filtered, however plenty of settings in the menu and rolling the sub off at 70 - 80hz (not shown).
Should have named this the pot luck subwoofer thread.
Used the pair of the brown boxes far left in post #11, wired to 8ohms.
And hard work pays off, the combination of "oversized" boxes with a stereo amp worked nicely, it didn't matter if one channel, 120w was used or bridged mode.
The measurements are un-filtered, however plenty of settings in the menu and rolling the sub off at 70 - 80hz (not shown).
Attachments
Last edited:
Secondly, took a pair of Anarchy towers: cut, glued, etc. to make one sub tower. (discarded the MTM boxes). Modified the vents and tuned it to 26hz, thinking this may be the best so far.
Researched sub amps, looking a Hypex DS4.0 or one of the Dayton's SA230 or the 1000.
Interesting, I sent my room correction file to the processor's company, their engineers will adjust them and send them back for upload.
He originally thought the "all 7" speaker" [6 L-C-R and 4 for the sub] ploy was not going to work, but later wrote back (with attached updated file) and said the bass response was impressive.
Researched sub amps, looking a Hypex DS4.0 or one of the Dayton's SA230 or the 1000.
Interesting, I sent my room correction file to the processor's company, their engineers will adjust them and send them back for upload.
He originally thought the "all 7" speaker" [6 L-C-R and 4 for the sub] ploy was not going to work, but later wrote back (with attached updated file) and said the bass response was impressive.
Attachments
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.