Hi there,
I'm operating for s couple years a pair of ML-2's on mry Acoustats.
I love the sound and the last year my wife also.
She operates them when she works at home ...
Then I saw my energy-bill at the end of last year and I had top pay an extra € 745,00 that's roughly one thousand dollars....
AC costs ,10 Eurocents per KW oh yeah and another .13 Eurocents energytax per KW thanks to those greenhouse lobbygroups like Greenpeace.
Those ML-2's suck 400 Watts continuously from the wall per unit (actually I measured 350 Watts)
I love the sound but I've read 15 raving userreviews about the No. 23.5 and a very positive review in Stereophile (maybe that's not saying much because everything is great with that "independent" magazine)
I do not need the power that the No. 23.5 can throw at you because I get by with the 15 Volts RMS from the ML-2. I do need the current that both can deliver.
Any thougts/suggestions on this matter?
I'm operating for s couple years a pair of ML-2's on mry Acoustats.
I love the sound and the last year my wife also.
She operates them when she works at home ...
Then I saw my energy-bill at the end of last year and I had top pay an extra € 745,00 that's roughly one thousand dollars....
AC costs ,10 Eurocents per KW oh yeah and another .13 Eurocents energytax per KW thanks to those greenhouse lobbygroups like Greenpeace.
Those ML-2's suck 400 Watts continuously from the wall per unit (actually I measured 350 Watts)
I love the sound but I've read 15 raving userreviews about the No. 23.5 and a very positive review in Stereophile (maybe that's not saying much because everything is great with that "independent" magazine)
I do not need the power that the No. 23.5 can throw at you because I get by with the 15 Volts RMS from the ML-2. I do need the current that both can deliver.
Any thougts/suggestions on this matter?
You got to pay to play. 🙂
Think of this. In the winter, they are no less efficient than electric heat, so you are heating your place and getting music for free.
I remember the 23's of yesteryear. Very nice. The only time I could have closed my eyes and almost believed it was live was a half-track studio tape on a Revox, Levenson 23/26 and original B&W 801's of a solo upright base.
Have you thought about some newer higher production designs? Maybe even a Halo, or the new amp Benchmark is advertising. I wonder, in a real home, once you get so good, how much better can they really get?
From what I have heard, if you appreciate the Levinsons, you would find class D is not ready yet. I have only heard a couple "better" ones. They are different. Better or worse? No, different. I am not ready for them yet.
P.S. When the Euro-Zone efficiency cops come knocking, Ill take the Levensons off your hands for only the shipping.😀
Think of this. In the winter, they are no less efficient than electric heat, so you are heating your place and getting music for free.
I remember the 23's of yesteryear. Very nice. The only time I could have closed my eyes and almost believed it was live was a half-track studio tape on a Revox, Levenson 23/26 and original B&W 801's of a solo upright base.
Have you thought about some newer higher production designs? Maybe even a Halo, or the new amp Benchmark is advertising. I wonder, in a real home, once you get so good, how much better can they really get?
From what I have heard, if you appreciate the Levinsons, you would find class D is not ready yet. I have only heard a couple "better" ones. They are different. Better or worse? No, different. I am not ready for them yet.
P.S. When the Euro-Zone efficiency cops come knocking, Ill take the Levensons off your hands for only the shipping.😀
Natural gaz is relatively cheap here for heating....
Actually not. I would prefer the Jeff Rowland Model 7's but the wife will sanction that.
I concur with you on that matter.
I bet you would but I have already a Chinese person that will pay topdollar as they pretty buy all the classic ML Gear nowadays...
I have not heard a Rolland since he first started building power supplies for Panasonic strain gauge cartridges for Transcendental Audio in Denver back in the 70's. He has hung in there with a consistent fanbase, so I suspect they are the real deal.
In the Washington DC area, they don't know what high fidelity is, so I don't get to hear decent stuff. I wonder, something without the expensive name and advertising like Outlaw? Could they actually be sonically on par with other prestige brand AB amps? Or are the just replacing things like the old "9" series Rotels as best value decent stuff?
Something is amiss here. The Chinese are buying up our best classic gear, and shipping us c$#&. One of us is not too bright and I suspect it is us.
In the Washington DC area, they don't know what high fidelity is, so I don't get to hear decent stuff. I wonder, something without the expensive name and advertising like Outlaw? Could they actually be sonically on par with other prestige brand AB amps? Or are the just replacing things like the old "9" series Rotels as best value decent stuff?
Something is amiss here. The Chinese are buying up our best classic gear, and shipping us c$#&. One of us is not too bright and I suspect it is us.
Jeff is a great designer and person to deal with it.
I really like his classic stuff like the Coherence One and M7's
I do not know anything about the stuff you mentioned honestly but I would go for classic high-end gear because it keeps it's value pretty much.
Well luckily you still have old those muscle cars that I see on programs on Discovery...
Yeah the chinese are getting a great deal fiat currency debt for goods and services ...🙂
Class- d is the way if you want to cut back, spectral will work for you too ...
Class- d is the way if you want to cut back, spectral will work for you too ...
I definitely won't go for Class D But there must be something between 700 Watts idling and 5 Watts.
A properly biased No. 23.5 idles at 225 Watts and that's fine by me.
I'm considering a Jeff Rowland model 5 too (one huge chassis will be less intrusive then two like the M7's) I'm not sure about a Krell KSA-300s to big and to complicated.
Maybe the last Thresholds when Nelson Pass was still around like the SA-4 or S/550 or a Cello Duet-350.
The Levinson is powerfull yet compact and relatively pretty common over here
Yea, we have them. Total junk. They drive like a truck and their build quality makes TVR or Jensen look like a Merc. I knew something was wrong when a friend out-ran my Mustang in a Simca running on 3 cylinders on a back road.
Even if the actual performance is not any better than the next lower tier, the classic high end is often just nicer to use. I have a Nak CA-5 and ST-7 in my office. My bench Hafler pre and a Kenwood tuner are better sonically, but the Naks are nicer to use and they are still darn good. I still want a PA-5 to match. These are not really high end, but far enough up the ladder to have some of the effect. Macintosh has held it's market for that reason alone for decades. Some of it is still just plain the best. The JC-1 phono stage as an example.
Even if the actual performance is not any better than the next lower tier, the classic high end is often just nicer to use. I have a Nak CA-5 and ST-7 in my office. My bench Hafler pre and a Kenwood tuner are better sonically, but the Naks are nicer to use and they are still darn good. I still want a PA-5 to match. These are not really high end, but far enough up the ladder to have some of the effect. Macintosh has held it's market for that reason alone for decades. Some of it is still just plain the best. The JC-1 phono stage as an example.
You mean a Jensen Interceptor with a American V8?
Difference that there are a lot of American muscle cars left and no Simca's...
I ment those custom made guys that make those beautiful modern classica with old muscle cars.
I once had a Nakamichi 1000ZXL deck. Good sound for a cassette player when it worked
PA-5 and PA-7 are Stasis designs from Nelson Pass.
They ought to be good sounding I think.
Difference that there are a lot of American muscle cars left and no Simca's...
I ment those custom made guys that make those beautiful modern classica with old muscle cars.
I once had a Nakamichi 1000ZXL deck. Good sound for a cassette player when it worked
PA-5 and PA-7 are Stasis designs from Nelson Pass.
They ought to be good sounding I think.
Yup, some of his work not quite as cost constrained as the Adcoms that followed. I have heard they tend to be not terribly stable, but I try to build speakers that are easy on the amp.
I went for the Luxman decks in those days. Naks seemed to only play tapes well that were recorded on a Nak. About the time I was happy with that, I switched to a Sony VCR as a PCM recorder.
Yea, and they still drive like a truck. With a lot of modern parts and engineering, they can be made to behave and you can actually get as much power out of a 800 Lb 302 as I get out of my 300 Lb 2.0. If I wanted a big car to put a big V8 in, I would start with a better car. For what they pay for a nice Chevy ss, they could have bought a perfect ISO or several Nissan Skylines.
The craftsmanship on all the Jensens was terrible but I like them anyway.
I went for the Luxman decks in those days. Naks seemed to only play tapes well that were recorded on a Nak. About the time I was happy with that, I switched to a Sony VCR as a PCM recorder.
Yea, and they still drive like a truck. With a lot of modern parts and engineering, they can be made to behave and you can actually get as much power out of a 800 Lb 302 as I get out of my 300 Lb 2.0. If I wanted a big car to put a big V8 in, I would start with a better car. For what they pay for a nice Chevy ss, they could have bought a perfect ISO or several Nissan Skylines.
The craftsmanship on all the Jensens was terrible but I like them anyway.
I had a Adcom GFA-565 for a while but the ELNA "long-life" yeah that's what they were called spilled their electrolytic fluid all over the frontendboards ruiing the copper traces.
Took me days to repair that mess but the amp sounded alright and it was pretty stable indeed as I recall. Powerfull amp.
To get back to my initial question:
I've had several classic pieces of American high-end grade amps on my electrostatics like Thresholds S/300 Series II, a pair of SA/1's (several incarnations), Krell KSA-100 and KMA-200's Mk II, Levinson ML-3 and ML-2's, Rowland model 7's (Series II and IV) and model 8T.
Although I did like the ML-3 (I know The Absolute Sound in those days when Harry Pearson and John Nork singlehandedly determined what sounded good and what not so Levinson and Threshold were no good, and in effect only designs from Audio-Research and Conrad Johnson where okay) it had not the magical sounding capabilities of the ML-2's. I also preferred the SA/1's and Model 7's over the ML-3.
As said before I do not like the energy consumption of these amplifiers and I feel almost guilty when I turn them on. It deprives me in a way from the joy of listening to my music...
Friend of mine has a pair of Pass Labs X-600's that I like very much (I've heard them several times on the same electrostatics as I have) but according to the specsheet they take in a 600 Watts when idling so that's not a solution. I hope that's the pair of them and not per unit....
I now do think it's per unit because the X-350 in the same chassis as one X-600 is specified to burn off 600 watts when idling.
I would settle for almost the sound of the ML-2, JRDG model 7 or Threshold SA/1, but I've no experience with the No. 23.5, JRDG model 5 or a Threshold SA/4 (or Class AB version of it the S/550).
I hope somebody on DIYaudio is acquainted with these amps and it would be even greater if he has also experience with the mono's I mentioned.
Thanks in advance
Robert
ps I will go over to my friend and will measure the AC intake when idling of his X-600's. Having had the Krell KMA-200's which were specified to burn off 600 Watts per unit when idling with their two fans per chassis blowing continuously, I can't imagine that the X-600's take the same amount when they are biased to deliver a maximum of 80 Watts Class A power RMS and the Krells 200 Watts RMS.
His blue meters are just a tad over the one third scale mark as they are supposed to be so that would reflect the right amount of idle draw of the amplifier
I predict that the specified idle draw of 600 watts per unit is in fact way to high...
Took me days to repair that mess but the amp sounded alright and it was pretty stable indeed as I recall. Powerfull amp.
To get back to my initial question:
I've had several classic pieces of American high-end grade amps on my electrostatics like Thresholds S/300 Series II, a pair of SA/1's (several incarnations), Krell KSA-100 and KMA-200's Mk II, Levinson ML-3 and ML-2's, Rowland model 7's (Series II and IV) and model 8T.
Although I did like the ML-3 (I know The Absolute Sound in those days when Harry Pearson and John Nork singlehandedly determined what sounded good and what not so Levinson and Threshold were no good, and in effect only designs from Audio-Research and Conrad Johnson where okay) it had not the magical sounding capabilities of the ML-2's. I also preferred the SA/1's and Model 7's over the ML-3.
As said before I do not like the energy consumption of these amplifiers and I feel almost guilty when I turn them on. It deprives me in a way from the joy of listening to my music...
Friend of mine has a pair of Pass Labs X-600's that I like very much (I've heard them several times on the same electrostatics as I have) but according to the specsheet they take in a 600 Watts when idling so that's not a solution. I hope that's the pair of them and not per unit....
I now do think it's per unit because the X-350 in the same chassis as one X-600 is specified to burn off 600 watts when idling.
I would settle for almost the sound of the ML-2, JRDG model 7 or Threshold SA/1, but I've no experience with the No. 23.5, JRDG model 5 or a Threshold SA/4 (or Class AB version of it the S/550).
I hope somebody on DIYaudio is acquainted with these amps and it would be even greater if he has also experience with the mono's I mentioned.
Thanks in advance
Robert
ps I will go over to my friend and will measure the AC intake when idling of his X-600's. Having had the Krell KMA-200's which were specified to burn off 600 Watts per unit when idling with their two fans per chassis blowing continuously, I can't imagine that the X-600's take the same amount when they are biased to deliver a maximum of 80 Watts Class A power RMS and the Krells 200 Watts RMS.
His blue meters are just a tad over the one third scale mark as they are supposed to be so that would reflect the right amount of idle draw of the amplifier
I predict that the specified idle draw of 600 watts per unit is in fact way to high...
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