Lateral MOSFETs

JaredC79

Banned
2015-09-02 4:32 am
NJ
I have only used Exicons as Holton was a large influence on designing and interest in building amps. I have to order more laterals in the very year future and while resistors and capacitors all have unique sonic qualities, can the same be said about laterals? If I decided to use the seme or other mfg for the next order to save time matching transistors and the other components and topography the same, would the results and tonal quality be virtually identical? Part of me wants to say no because of the switching nature of a transformer however another part of me wants to say since it is in the path of the signal the tone will be different from one MFG to the next. Can anyone please chime in with their experience?
 
I built the OPC wire amp that used TI LME49830 and alf16N(P)160 devices. i measured amp to have 600ns rise time and the fall was just a bit slower. it has really nice bass drive. I like it, nice sounding amp.
now working on a faster amp, the mark alexander cfa design using the same lats but two in parallel thos time, as I am going to use a bigger supply.
 

JaredC79

Banned
2015-09-02 4:32 am
NJ
Will the Exicons sound the same as a Semelab lateral provided the same topography? I want to change the design up to take advantage of the PNP packages rather then matching transistors when running in series. I know the Exicons are robust and haven't touched or heard the ON or Seme products yet - but if they will sound different i will use the PNP packages for different amps and keep the Exicons on the designs already using them and change the components for another amp.
 
I think too much emphasis is put on sound changes made by components.
Negative feedback ensures that all these things are irrelevant.

I have a house full of different amplifiers that all sound the same through the same speakers.

I even use vertical mosfets in some of my designs and still cant hear the difference.

Or maybe my old ears just aren't sensitive enough ?
 

JaredC79

Banned
2015-09-02 4:32 am
NJ
thank you - you would admit a difference between wirewound and non magnetic non inductive thin/thick film resistors and higher quality caps tho correct? or is that all BS as well - I will never spend 15-20 on a resistor of .1 but a few bucks where it is critical - may as well provided the benefits are there.
 
I think too much emphasis is put on sound changes made by components.
Negative feedback ensures that all these things are irrelevant.

I have a house full of different amplifiers that all sound the same through the same speakers.

Or maybe my old ears just aren't sensitiven enough ?

I can say that you are right Nigel, Recently and after to thousand hours across my life in listening classic music, visit a friend of me with the same goals in listen and to compare.
I travel bringing my Lowthers 1000Km, EX4 and DX3, to compare with SE monster amplifiers that my friend has, and the fact was to see which difference are with the AERs he own.
The sound was the same kind, I have now sounding in my living room a yamaha SS from the eighties and with minor differences, the sound was the same.

With this I can ratify that you are right, the sound is depending on the Speaker system.

Best Regards
 

Jay

Banned
2003-02-11 9:02 am
Jakarta
I have a house full of different amplifiers that all sound the same through the same speakers.

That's funny. Coz I have only one amplifier but it sounded different through the same speaker I used. And I only changed the input transistor :cool:

Hfe, noise and input capacitance of the transistor contributes to audio quality. That's how good designers design good quality amplifier...
 

billshurv

Member
Paid Member
2014-03-01 11:53 pm
That's funny. Coz I have only one amplifier but it sounded different through the same speaker I used. And I only changed the input transistor :cool:

Hfe, noise and input capacitance of the transistor contributes to audio quality. That's how good designers design good quality amplifier...

But you do believe in silver wire, magic capacitors, the loch ness monster and your ears :p
 

Jay

Banned
2003-02-11 9:02 am
Jakarta
Or maybe my old ears just aren't sensitive enough ?

Do you have (more than one) guitars at home? Do you think one guitar is better sounding than the others? Then try to ABX the guitars. Don't be surprised if you cannot hear differences.

And if you cannot hear the differences, will you change your mind regarding your favorite guitar? Do you see the issue here?

And it is not just your ears, it is everyone's ears. The ears are just not sensitive enough. But it doesn't mean that everything sound the same! Because the way human appreciate sound is by FEELING it instead of HEARING it. So if you want to be able to differentiate sounds, try to feel it instead of hear it. It takes practice, yes.
 

Jay

Banned
2003-02-11 9:02 am
Jakarta
Can anyone please chime in with their experience?

Davidsrsb was right. Once you have improved every parts of your electronics audio chain, the tendency becomes higher for the PCB track/layout to become audible or even become the bottleneck.

I know that some old Hitachi TO-3 latfets were better than some newer TO-3 Hitachi, which could be fakes.

Last few days I have compared Sanken C2922 transistors. The ones that seems to be fakes have dirty HF due to oscillation.
 

billshurv

Member
Paid Member
2014-03-01 11:53 pm
Pick anything that you believe sound difference. Your ATC speaker versus System7's cheap speaker with cone tweeter. ABX them. What if you cannot hear the difference?

Luckily, I can easily pass an ABX like that :p

I don't own ATCs. Never have done. If I did that ABX test would be easy as would set is at 'realistic concert hall' levels and listen for the sound of the cheap speakers melting.
 

Jay

Banned
2003-02-11 9:02 am
Jakarta
If I did that ABX test would be easy as would set is at 'realistic concert hall' levels and listen for the sound of the cheap speakers melting.

Hehe but that's not fair :p

What I mean is, there must be something that you sure are different in sound quality, but wait until you do a proper controlled ABX...

Will then you end up in "everything sound the same" camp?

Isn't it crazy, people build high quality stuffs, as if they can hear any differences :D People try to improve THD, damping factor, noise performance, stability etc etc (to certain level) as if they can hear differences :D:D

People replace resistor current source with JFET-based CCS, WHY??? Can they hear the difference??? I think they must have gone crazy :D
 

billshurv

Member
Paid Member
2014-03-01 11:53 pm
What I mean is, there must be something that you sure are different in sound quality, but wait until you do a proper controlled ABX...
As I get older music becomes more important. Building stuff is just for fun and keeping me out the pub.
People replace resistor current source with JFET-based CCS, WHY??? Can they hear the difference??? I think they must have gone crazy :D

Many people do things for fun challenge and because they like to be able to measure an improvement. This is after all a hobby site. If someone chases low ppm distortion just for lolz good on them. But fretting over the audibility of components outside the known parameters you can model....
 
Do you have (more than one) guitars at home? Do you think one guitar is better sounding than the others? Then try to ABX the guitars. Don't be surprised if you cannot hear differences.
I agree with Nigel and the others on a lot of S/S amp comparisons.
I can certainly tell the difference between one of my class D amps using TI TPA3100 or TPA3118 vs my lat fet amp. I can not tell the diff between a TPA3100 and a TPA3118.
Comparing a guitar to a S/S amp is not a good comparison at all!! I do not know of one guitarist that only has one guitar, almost un-imaginable really, unless that is all you can afford. Pro's usually have a different guitar for every song. :)
Now if you compare a guitar to speakers then I would go along with that. The mechanics have a much bigger effect than a semiconductor device does.
 
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Jay

Banned
2003-02-11 9:02 am
Jakarta
I agree with Nigel and the others on a lot of S/S amp comparisons.
I can certainly tell the difference between one of my class D amps using TI TPA3100 or TPA3118 vs my lat fet amp. I can not tell the diff between a TPA3100 and a TPA3118.
Comparing a guitar to a S/S amp is not a good comparison at all!! I do not know of one guitarist that only has one guitar, almost un-imaginable really, unless that is all you can afford. Pro's usually have a different guitar for every song. :)
Now if you compare a guitar to speakers then I would go along with that. The mechanics have a much bigger effect than a semiconductor device does.

What I meant was...

In our life we have sufficient experience to "assume" that A is better sounding than B, without even the needs to do a controlled ABX listening test. Nigel must have more than one guitars, yes. And he might have preference, or he might have thought that one of his guitar is better sounding than the other, without even doing an ABX listening test...

Now, what if he conducted the listening test, and he failed to detect differences between the guitar? Should he revised his assumption or opinion about his guitar sound? IMO, it is not that simple. He will not have sufficiently sensitive ears to detect small differences in an ABX, but in a long listening experience, his brain might be able to detect that one is actually better sounding than the other.

In my case, I trained myself to detect differences using feeling (such as listening for fatigue). Sometimes I'm successful in correlating feeling with numbers or Physics parameters.
 

Jay

Banned
2003-02-11 9:02 am
Jakarta
Many people do things for fun challenge and because they like to be able to measure an improvement. This is after all a hobby site. If someone chases low ppm distortion just for lolz good on them.

For me it is just funny how people say that the current SHOULD be mirrored, the bias SHOULD be increased, bla bla bla when in the other side of the world they think that everything sound the same if you cannot prove it in an ABX.

But fretting over the audibility of components outside the known parameters you can model....

Isn't it your assumption? That there is no parameter? Cables have resistance, caps have similar.

I can say that cap A is better than B and I'm ready to prove it in an ABX because I know what I know. But people who demanded THD, OLG, bla bla bla and then saying that everything sound the same is hypocritical.

If you think that "all" amps sound the same then you should pick the cheapest amp for your own use (why you have to purchase the expensive latfet for example). If you don't, that's because you don't have enough confidence in your own knowledge.